Is cubbing good for BSA ?

[juris]

Don't get shocked when I point out to you that in some instancies, Cub Scouting was not good in furthering our Scout movement.

Example: On one my of recruitment projects I was allowed, with the school principle's permission, to go to each class to recruit new boys into Scouting. I asked "how many boys are in Scouting ? Ten boys raised their hands. They could not have been eleven. That puzzled me.? So Asked them what Troop they belonged.?They said " we're in Boy Scout pack 24, "oh well"I said "that is great, then you will be joining Boy Scouts ? "Oh no, we did camping, canoeng, knot tying, cooking and earned all the awards,and we had den mothers as leaders.we know what scouting is all abaut I tried to reason and show the difference, but they were set in not joining BSA .Ruined by the cubbing program. Ten boys who were not in Cub Scouting did join, later. .I still was able to get from the weblows , 6 boys to join our Troop due to units strong reputation. Juris, www

[SemperParatus]

"We did camping, canoeng, knot tying, cooking and earned all the awards..."

 

I'm sorry, but how is it they were 'ruined' by cub scouts?

[ScoutNut]

And if you got 6 of the 10 to join your Troop how were they ruined?

 

BTW - You did not mention what grade you were in (perhaps you did not know), but if they had "Den Mothers" it had to be at least 15 years ago or longer, and they did not have to be 11 to be in a Boy Scout Troop.

 

Also, Cub Scouting is still SCOUTING, so I really do not understand why you were puzzled when they honestly answered your question.

[cubbingcarol]

I believe this post was started to goad some people. JMHO. It sure goaded me. But I choose to take the high ground and will not enter a surefire arguement except to say I believe in the Cub Scout program.

 

Carol

[Backpacker]

Juris

 

Your post is at the least absurd and at best a concocted fairy tale. Cubs do a lot to support the BSA and provide new members to boy scout troops. With each new post you continue to crash and burn, nuff said.

[bbng]

Your post is not shocking. It is one more way that you show that you don't truly know the BSA program. Cubbing, den mothers, weblows: none of these terms are used today and one has never been used. Also, it would appear that you were recruiting Boy Scouts from Cub Scout age boys. No, juris, your post is not shocking; you simply are confirming your lack of knowledge of the BSA.

[madkins007]

On the other hand... being a Cub leader at heart... I admit I sometimes wonder if Boy Scouts is a good place for all of our Cubs!

 

Sometimes, just sometimes you understand... I look at ALL the Cubs registered, and wonder where they all go after they move into troops and vanish.

 

(Of course... I guess I'd have to look at all of them that fade between Bear and 2nd Year Webs, too, I guess, if I were trying to be fair, woldn't I?)

[ronvo]

If you ask how many are in SCOUTING and cubs raise their hands - you're surprised. They ARE in Scouting. GOSH,......!

 

Obviously your imaginary great troop doesn't have any Den Chiefs performing service to the Pack.

 

ronvo

[juris]

My dear Souters: some of you missed my point ? " Cub Scouting is not good in furthering our Scout Movement ." I showed you just one of example, there are more, Maybe some one else will point that out.BSA, Inc, runs many youth programs, such as Scout Troops,venture units,explorers. OA chapters, and etc. But they are not the original concept of what Baden Powell created. Souting was boys from 12 to 17 years of age. Then BSA,Inc. decided to expand it's program not for the sake of the youth welfare,but so they can make more money.At roundable and campouts we joke some times ,that soon they will be taking boys who are still in diabers and making them into Scouts, (ha,ha)

When cub scouting start using Troop programs, then there are no reason for that boy to join a bonefide Troop.That's how we lose membership,

To 'SCout Nut " You did try to have an open mind. The boys that joined at that time, were not associated with Cubing program. I realise then and now ,that the age is 10 1/2 . Sorry to say Cubbing is not Scouting. We just belong to BSA,Inc. that is running the program. I improved the recruiting program by asking my high ranking scouts to serve as Den Leaders in the Packs, so they can influence the Cub scouts to join the best troop in the district. I also found that Cubs learned a lot of the skills very poorly. We had to re learn them all over, to qualify for their scouting advancement. Many boys were questening my PL's and SPL, why can't they use the cubbing badges instead ?

Madkins 007: I am glad you see it my way. I am not trying to get rid of Cubbing program, but one wonders why all of them don't join a Boy Scout Troop ???????

RONO.....That's what is confusing, they allready thought they were in a Boy Scout Troop, so why should they join?,Since the Pack already provided the same program.Rono..., I would gladly give you my former Unit number,Ditrict, and council. So you can go and research it for authenticy. But that would not prove anything. All it would is create more contrevercy.Take some training courses, so you can be more informed. But, my advice is don't ask these questions at the training courses or roundables, because you will be rediculed by the 'numskulls' who run them. Amen, Juris,www. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[cajuncody]

Juris says --" I improved the recruiting program by asking my high ranking scouts to serve as Den Leaders in the Packs, so they can influence the Cub scouts to join the best troop in the district"

 

Just how old were these "high ranking scouts"?

Kristi

[bbng]

My dear Souters: some of you missed my point ? " Cub Scouting is not good in furthering our Scout Movement ." I showed you just one of example, there are more,

 

The Scouting movement was an idea started in England by Baden-Powell, based on the conviction that boys can live up to a code of conduct and can develop themselves physically, mentally, and spiritually in association with other boys through a program of appealing activities and advancement challenges under the leadership of adults. Cub Scouting is not designed to further the Scout movement. Rather, it is part of it. the Boy Scouts of America helps younger boys through Cub Scouting and has done so for 75 years. The BSA serves youth; youth do not serve the BSA. Likewise, Cub Scout units do not exist to serve Boy Scout troops.

 

Maybe some one else will point that out.BSA, Inc, runs many youth programs, such as Scout Troops,venture units,explorers. OA chapters, and etc. But they are not the original concept of what Baden Powell created. Souting was boys from 12 to 17 years of age. Then BSA,Inc. decided to expand it's program not for the sake of the youth welfare,but so they can make more money.

 

By BSA,Inc, I would assume you are referring to the BSA? Historically, "Scouting" has been the generic term for the organization and activities of the Boy Scouts of America. It refers also to Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, and troop and team activities. The program of the Boy Scouts of America is designed to fulfill its chartered purpose to achieve objectives in character development, citizenship training, and fitness adapted to the age groups: Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, and Venturers. The program is carried out in units run by local organizations chartered by the Boy Scouts of America. The program of the BSA appealed to more ages; therefore it was expanded. Unless citizenship training, character development, and fitness can be sold, I fail to see where this is just a money-making scheme.

 

At roundable and campouts we joke some times ,that soon they will be taking boys who are still in diabers and making them into Scouts, (ha,ha)Carol dear, you are most likely a member of the "Baby sitters of America ", good cubing to you.

 

You've made mention of roundtable many times, and never in a good way. Perhaps your jokes at roundtable have been considered inappropriate? Oh, and cubing would be a good thing to learn--very handy in preparing stew I know that was a typo, but it made me chuckle; you meant Cub Scouting I'm sure.

 

When cub scouting start using Troop programs, then there are no reason for that boy to join a bonefide Troop.That's how we lose membership,

 

I am surprised that in all the experience you've amassed that you've somehow missed out on understanding that Cub Scouting is that part of the program of the Boy Scouts of America for boys who are in the first grade through fifth grade (or are 7 through 10 years old). The emphasis is on family-centered activities, group activities, learning, and having fun. Boy Scouting is that part of the program of the Boy Scouts of America for boys and young men not yet 18 years old, and who are at least 11, or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old, or who have earned the Arrow of Light Award in Cub Scouting and are at least 10 years old. The emphasis is on outdoor activity, learning skills, developing leadership ability, and service. Seems to me that the focus is the same, yet different. The program has one set of purposes for all, but it is delivered differently due the age differences of the boys.

 

Sorry to say Cubbing is not Scouting. We just belong to BSA,Inc. that is running the program.

 

That doesn't make sense. Cubbing is an obsolete term, so it's true that it's not part of the BSA. BSA, Inc does exist, but it does not stand for Boy Scouts of America or anything remotely related to the BSA that we are discussing here. So if by Cubbing you mean Cub Scouting, and by BSA, Inc, you mean the BSA, then by the definitions provided by the Boy Scouts of America Cub Scouting is part of Scouting, which is a common way of referring to the program of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

 

I improved the recruiting program by asking my high ranking scouts to serve as Den Leaders in the Packs, so they can influence the Cub scouts to join the best troop in the district.

 

How old were these high-ranking Scouts?

 

I also found that Cubs learned a lot of the skills very poorly. We had to re learn them all over, to qualify for their scouting advancement. Many boys were questening my PL's and SPL, why can't they use the cubbing badges instead ?

 

And the point of this is??? You see, even boys who have been taught well, who have been able to demonstrate the skills, might forget how to do something if it is not used. As a boy moves up in rank, he normally does review what he has learned, and in a good troop, he will be helping others to learn, which is how he keeps what he has learned fresh. As for using cubbing badges, they don't exist, so I'm getting redundant, but what is wrong with a boy needing to be taught about merit badges? These are new to him. And this nagging thought keeps coming back to me: if I, in my limited trainings to date, have learned the processes, why do they remain so unclear to you who has served on staff and gone through Wood Badge training?

 

...but one wonders why all of them don't join a Boy Scout Troop ???????

 

For many reasons, and many of us work hard at recruiting. However, if the program isn't presenting in an appealing way, the boys won't be interested. The way you've described Scouting in this post alone is confusing to me, a fellow Scouter. It could sure confuse a boy. One area to work on--one I am actively involved in this council--is to improve communications and marketing.

 

Since the Pack already provided the same program.

 

No, it didn't. I'd highly recommend that you review the Cub Scout handbooks these boys would have been using. There is nothing in the list of activities you've provided that indicates the boys were involved in a troop as opposed to a pack.

 

Rono..., I would gladly give you my former Unit number,Ditrict, and council. So you can go and research it for authenticy. But that would not prove anything. All it would is create more contrevercy.

 

Would you give it to me then? And why would it create controvercy? You haven't created controversy, by the way; you've simply given out wrong information.

 

Take some training courses, so you can be more informed. But, my advice is don't ask these questions at the training courses or roundables, because you will be rediculed by the 'numskulls' who run them.

 

Ahhhhhhhhh...and now it is clear as to why you have not learned the program. You've been trained by numbskulls. That name calling doesn't sound very Scout-like, nor does the idea that anyone would be ridiculed during roundtable or training sessions. It is certainly possible that it happens, it is quite likely that attendees might not care for what they hear, but it is not Scout-like.

 

Amen, Juris,www.

 

So be it? No, I'll continue to disagree with what's been stated. Your stating it doesn't make it so.

 

***Bold print: items quoted from the BSA literture.

[fgoodwin]

Another "purist" . . .

 

Britain had Cub Scouts 20 years before America did. And they were started by BP:

 

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/history/cubs/

 

Cub Scouting does "further" the Scouting movement, because the principles of Cubbing were laid down by the Founder of the Scouting Movement himself!

[ljnrsu]

Juris I find your posts amazing. With each post your misstatements of BSA terminology and programs are more profound.

 

BSA,Inc does not exsist. Nationals charter states the name as Boy Scouts of America or BSA. There is no Inc,Ltd or Corp in its name.

 

Camping,knot tying,cooking all were requirements when I earned my AOL in the spring of 1964. This seem to have been part of the Cub Scout program prior to your involvement in Scouting.

 

"I improved the recruiting program by asking my high ranking scouts to serve as Den Leaders in the Packs, so they can influence the Cub scouts to join the best troop in the district".

 

I think you meant Den Chief instead of Den Leaders. Since a Den Leader must be an adult.

 

One purpose of a Den Chief is recruitment. How did you "improve" something that already exsists. All you did was to use part of the program that has been around since atleast 1945.

(my library only goes back as far as the Third Handbook for Scoutmasters, Eleventh edition copyright 1945)

 

As far as Webelows camping,cooking etc. IMHO that is a great thing. It serves to make the transition from Cub Scouting to Boy Scouting easier. They already have had a taste of what is to come since 75% of scouting is outing.

 

 

[bbng]

fgoodwin, what do you mean by purist? Thanks for posting that link; what a great site for an overview of Scouting's beginnings in the UK. Cub Scouting does "further" the Scouting movement, because the principles of Cubbing were laid down by the Founder of the Scouting Movement himself! I agree with what you said. What I personally do not agree with is that Cub Scouting exists solely to build up troops (and that, in context, is how furthering the movement has come across), though certainly a boy should learn skills that will help prepare him for a troop.

 

Regardless of where this thread goes, Cub Scouting has value for the boys who take part in it. I personally support the program in its entirety and have been involved in working on recruiting Cub Scouts as well as working at improving retention of both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. It is my opinion that any youth who misses out on Scouting misses out on what may be the single best program available. Wrapped up in all the fun and adventure, there are lessons learned that last a lifetime, and it is a privilege to be part of that.(This message has been edited by bbng)

[fgoodwin]

By "purist" I mean those (not just juris) who feel that Scouting = Boy Scouts, and that Cub Scouting is an accretion onto the original "pure" program, as if Cub Scouting were an American invention not worthy of being considered part of Scouting.

 

The intent of my post was to remind purists like juris and his ilk that Cubbing was not an American invention -- indeed, it was developed by BP himself.

 

Cub Scouting is just as much a part of Scouting, and does just as much to further the ideals of Scouting, as does Boy Scouting, Venturing, etc.