District indecision

[Scoutndad]

Here's the problem, our Pack sits on a dividing line between two districts. The district that we chartered with and have always been associated with, has had very limited involvement with us.

The other district has a substantially larger area and is more proactive with their Packs and Troops.

The District Commissioner is aware of this continuing oversight but I have seen little in the way of having someone come out and speak with us and involve us in District events. I have also asked that our Cubmaster (or a designated attendee) attend the monthly roundtable meetings but to no avail. I have also suggested that our Pack Committee chairperson and others, strongly look into the possibility of aligning with the other district just from the Scouting invovlement side. My term is up in '06 unless they asked for my continued involvement, but I can't help think that without aid of a strong District, we may lose the interest of young scouts to come.

To emphasize this point, as the Webelos II leader, I recently sent out requests for a list of local Boy Scout troops and contact names to both Districts so I can begin to schedule visits and interactions in our area. The District we do not belong to, responded back promptly and provided great information. The District we belong to has been absent with info.

I am bias with my thoughts so I decided to bring it to the forum and ask for any helpful suggestions on what to do about District indecision...any thoughts?

[Greg Nelson]

Well, you probably won't like my thoughts, but here goes.

 

[rant]

It's all well and good that you have a thriving nearby district. But that's not YOUR district. You can use it as a good example, but quitting your district and moving to the other one just isn't going to happen, unless you move your pack's CO.

 

What is the district, anyway? It's nothing more than the sum of the packs and troops that belong to it. If the district is sickly, it's because the units don't value it enough to build it up. Instead of viewing it as a "THEY don't help us. THEY don't do anything for us, THEY, THEY, THEY...", look at it as a "WE need to do more, WE should provide this, ..."

 

You even admit that your unit doesn't chip in by even attending roundtable, which is a pretty minimal commitment. If the other units operate that way, no wonder the district is so lame. If the district isn't functioning well, take it over and do it right. Don't just point fingers.

[/rant]

 

Thanks for listening.

[NJCubScouter]

Scoutndad, you say you have asked others in the pack to attend district roundtables but to no avail. Do you attend yourself? And if the answer is no, and nobody is attending roundtables, why do you think that people will be more likely to attend roundtables in the district you're not in, than in the district you are in? (Unless the RT's in the district you're not in are much closer to where you are, which I suppose is possible if your districts are very large geographically.)

 

As for getting a list of troops, have you tried calling the registrar in your council office? I am not sure who you are trying to get the lists from, from the "districts." I suppose councils differ in how they are set up, but in my council all of the professional staff (including DE's) are all in one place, the council office, so if I was sending requests to different places it would be to district volunteers, such as commissioners. Dealing with the council staff probably would be more productive.

 

As for switching districts, my understanding has been that you can't -- even if you are very close to the line, you are on one side of it or the other. However, the boys can choose a troop regardless of which district it is in. But I as a parent would base at least 99 percent of my decision (or advice to my son in making a decision) on the troop itself, because that is what you are going to be dealing with. If there is a "problem" in your district, it could be an ineffective commissioner, chairman or both, and the next person in that position could be the greatest ever, so the district situation could change quickly. I wouldn't base a decision on it, personally.

[SemperParatus]

With all due respect, District relations are a two way street. If your CM and CC (and anyone else in your pack) can't, at a minimum, make the commitment to attend roundtables than your unit leadership is partly to blame. What information do you want your district to proactively provide your unit with, that is not available at a roundtable that your unit does not make an attempt to attend?

 

I think your unit's energies may be better off supporting the district your lot has been cast with, rather than trying to figure out some way to transfer to another district. Just as with everything else in scouting, you reap what you sow. Convice your pack leaders to pick up a hoe and support your district.

[Scoutndad]

Well GN, thank you for your frankness and am not offended...

To answer some of your thoughts...

I agree with the WE not THEY mentality. There are many things that I could feign ingorance in and nothing that I could do to defend that ignorance.

You are absolutely right about the round table discussion and my lack of participation...unfortunately, my kids take precedent and the meetings occur on a night when I am simply not able to attend...HOWEVER...I make it a point to attend most parent meetings for our Pack. This is the forum I use to ask for a better representation from our Pack to attend and coordinate with our District.

As for the District division...when I said dividing line...I'm here to tell you that it is a dividing line...if I used the map through the council, we belong to the OTHER District...but we are registered through our current District.

I agree with your philosophy on not pointing fingers and did not single out one individual within the District-I may however, take your suggestion and at the conclusion of my den leader position, choose to spend that time a the District level which I had not considered before your posting...thanks.

To answer NJ, we do have IMHO some large districts. I also agree with your assessment on the effectiveness of leadership within the District but I could also leave this issue alone, continue on my merry way and have all of my Webelos II transition beautifully. But then I am no longer WE or THEY but ME.

[ScoutNut]

You are not locked into ONLY attending those events put on by your district. Your Pack can attend any events, in any district, & even in any council, it wants to.

 

If your council has a newsletter, sign up to receive it. If they have an email newsletter, even better.

 

Keep an eye on your council's website. Most council's will have some kind of ongoing events listing or calendar.

 

You said "I have also asked that our Cubmaster (or a designated attendee) attend the monthly roundtable meetings but to no avail.". Why haven't YOU attended?

 

You also said "I can't help think that without aid of a strong District, we may lose the interest of young scouts to come". Why? A strong district is nice. A lot of council events is nice too. However a strong district will NOT make up for a bad to mediocre program at the Unit level. Likewise, a lackluster district should NOT affect a Unit with a strong program. There are plenty of resources out there, your district is only one of many.

 

BTW - In most cases, a district is only as good as the volunteers it has working with it. Those district events don't put themselves on, district volunteers do.

 

As for your request for Boy Scout Troop info from your district, call your DE. Or better yet, call your DE & make an appointment to come in & talk to him & pick up the list.

 

[Scoutndad]

I have stated the reason that I can not attend. As a den leader, I can only suggest that someone else attend from our Pack. I do receive our Council's newsletter and they do a fantastic job of publishing other District activities and the roundtable meetings (I provide this info every parent meeting).

As for contacting the DE...I will have to try that...it's a darn good suggestion...

From what I'm hearing maybe I should take the collective recommendation and just deal with a bad situation since we created it (rhetorical)...

But what about the Districts responsibilty to coordinate with the Packs and Units?

The whole idea seems to be synergistic and the quality of the units and packs should not be dependent, but they are. Fledgling den/pack leaders NEED the District for guidance and training. I can't speak from the unit side...

Yeah sure OK volunteers make the organization from top down, but who monitors this and determines the effectiveness?

[ScoutNut]

"Yeah sure OK volunteers make the organization from top down, but who monitors this and determines the effectiveness?"

 

Ultimately the SE. Before that the District Commissioner & the District Executive.

 

" Fledgling den/pack leaders NEED the District for guidance and training."

 

Yes, training is one of the many ways that councils support their Units. Most council's will include all training dates on their website and their newsletter. Like events, you are not locked into taking the training ONLY from your District or council. Also, many councils, IF APPROACHED by the Unit, will make the effort to bring needed training directly to the Unit.

 

It is up to the Unit to let their new leaders know what their resources are & where to find them. It is also up to the new leader to actively seek out info & not wait for it to be handed to them on a platter.

 

"But what about the Districts responsibilty to coordinate with the Packs and Units?"

 

Coordinate what? Training? Events? Registration? School talks?

 

Coordinate how? Newsletters? Flyers at Roundtables? Verbal announcements at Roundtables? Announcements on websites? Flyers in Unit mailboxes? Emails to Unit CM/CC? Personal phone calls to every registered adult?

 

I am not really sure what it is that you want from your District. From what I can tell, the services that you want are probably there, somewhere, but your Unit is just not utilizing them. Your District and/or council can not force units to attend training, roundtables or events. They can not force people to receive the council newsletter or read the council website. DE's just do not have the time to call every Scouter in their District & personally invite them to things. How depressing do you think it is for Roundtable Commissioners to work all month pulling together great presentations, only to have 2 Units out of 50 show up?

 

After many years, my District finally had a Webelos Day. They never held one before because they could not get enough volunteers to run it. It's looking more & more like my council will not be holding a National Youth Leadership Training (NYLT) course for Boy Scouts this year. Why? Because they can not find a Scoutmaster who will volunteer to run it.

 

[Scoutndad]

Well said Scoutnut...I guess maybe I don't need much from my District that I can't provide for myself or from other Districts...

 

[Eamonn]

I of course like to think that the District I serve is the best.

I think we have the best volunteers and the best looking District Chairman.

I do have to say if we (Scoutndad & I) were in the same district. I would take what he said to heart and do everything I could to make things better.

Sure he is part of the District, but I see the role of the District as doing all we can to support him and the unit.

While I can't change the night or time of Roundtable I can ensure that the Cubmaster does receive all the R/T mail and news of what is happening when and where. If it becomes apparent that there is a need for training I can send in the District Training Team, their job is to train leaders not present Training Sessions. If I found out that the list of Troops was needed,the membership team are ready and willing to move into action. I really would like them future Boy Scouts to be part of our District.

I have this theory which isn't based on anything other than my gut feeling that Units and Districts go through peaks and valleys. The District that has me in it has been the force to be reckoned with for about 6 or 7 years. It seems that we have peaked and unless we do something very quickly we could slide. The District that had all the movers and grovers in about 10 years ago hit rock bottom. They have brought back a District Chair that has an ego even bigger than mine. While their goals are very low because of their slump, they are at long last starting to meet them. They went almost 3 years with a District Chairman and the District Committee meetings were a time when everyone sat around telling each other how bad things were!! Their DE who was a newbie 3 years ago is starting to find his feet and they have a new District Commissioner, who has a lot of hard work ahead.

I credit the successes we have had to us having a fine DE and the work done by our nominating committee.

Our volunteers are great, they support the District and the Council, the effort they put into selling popcorn, school sign up night, inviting people into do FOS presentations. Helping staff Camporees, Day Camp and so very much more is second to none.

Outsiders have said more than once that our District seems to be one big family. We do have a lot of fun, we do tease each other in a very friendly and kind way. The leaders even the misguided ones are doing their best for the kids that they serve.

Eamonn.

 

[madkins007]

Scoutndad- I am a bitter old man when it comes to district relations. You really don't want to hear it all*!

 

On the Cub Scout level, it really does not make a ton of difference what district you belong to. As has been pointed out, you can participate in many of the activities regardless of district.

 

As for finding troops- while district help is nice, it is not terribly critical. You ought to be able to find nearest troops with little trouble. A couple visits to Roundtable will do it if you don't already know them.

 

(Besides, I personally sorta think that the burden SHOULD be on the troops to find US! Just imagine what would happen to your neighboring troops if Cubs stopped transitioning! [not that this is a threat or anything, heh, heh, heh!])

 

 

 

(* I will note however, that I WAS active on the distict and council levels- serving on or leading committees for many years, including roundtable and training. Nonetheless, I'd have a hard time giving an example of a way the district ever really -helped- the pack. Boy Scouting is a diffrent situation altogether.)

[Scoutndad]

Thank you for your responses Eamonn - where did you say your district was again???lol

As was suggested, I may try to become involved at the district level since many of the points you made are the same issues that have really bothered me about our district. And as madkins pointed out (and others) it is not critical to the function of the pack or troop, but then why have it...

Eamonn I was hoping to hear that someone had an outstanding District that they could brag about. It helps me to aspire to become that District that challenges others within the council to become more active and establish great relationships. Your operational strategy is similar to what I had hoped for from mine, but again, while I can be a bit upset by our District involvement, I am as guilty as any for not attending the Roundtables (but not for a lack of wanting) and allowing the deterioration.

My Webelos II are a force to be reckoned with as well and while other dens gloss over requirements, I strive to have my boys set examples for other young scouts to follow. They will be ready to cross to Boy Scouts next year and trust me when I tell you that they are ready.

And as madkins pointed out, I was hoping the some Troops would seek us out, but that is vanity speaking. If they did, they would want all of my boys...

Thanks for the vote of confidence in ascertaining that there are inherent values of having a supportive District.

[jens3sons]

I am sorry, but I need to disagree with ScoutNut! The first year I was CC of our pack, and a couple years prior to that, we were one of the last rank districts in our council on numerous levels, and for a long time, we were one of the top ranked ones. The year I stepped up to the plate, I saw my unit failing and I saw our district failing, and they were failing me as well. I went to roundtables, and wasn't walking away with anything, other than the pack mail, and having some fun with other adults. I had a vision of where I wanted my pack to go and yet, being new, and having gone through training, I still felt like I was out of sorts. I DID start to complain, but it wasn't just me, it was other units as well, and things really turned around this past year. Please keep in mind when I say the areas that I think that I have to disagree with ScoutNut, that I am looking at this as the inexperienced scouter parent stepping up to take either the CC or CM positions.

 

ScoutNut, you said it is the units responsibility to approach the district to send out someone to do the training....Scoutndad can't even get a list of troops in his district with contact information, and yet someone is going to come out and train their leaders???

 

You also ask what is it the district is responsible to do "coordinate btw. packs and troops"...yes, I'm sorry, but I do think it is a huge help to have district put that information out there. The year prior to me being CC only 3 boys (out of 9) went on to Boy Scouts after earning their AOL...last year the same thing (exact same #'s). This time I was able to talk to those boys and find out why they were still interested in scouting...most of them it was because they already had an older brother in the troop they were joining, and so they had a better understanding of what was involved. This year after my complaints (and other units' complaints) the district formed a new position called "Webelos Transition Coordinator". They found a larger church, that was able to host a Troop open house, where all the troops in the district were invited to set up displays and talk with Webelos, and Bears. Through networking at Roundtables I was also able to get a Den Chief for my Webelos den and 2 Bear dens. All the boys (8) of them when they earned their AOL this year went on to Boy Scouting, and all 8 of their parents said it was the open house that hooked, lined, and sinkered them!

 

As for what else with my district that I relly on them for support? In our school district, scouts, (whether girl, cub or boy scouts) are unable to distribute fliers through the school for recruitment. We are able to set up a table at the back to school social because that is a PTA sponsored event, but, we relly on the district to print up fliers for us and mail them out to all the now first grade boys, and to let them know we will be at the back to school social and when our actual recruitment night will be. Plus it helps to have the district pay for the postage!

 

Our roundtables have also gotten much better! Instead of just going through a month pack meeting, instead, some ideas are given for the upcomming month, but now we are doing "break outs" where den leaders according to rank break into their own groups and CC's and CM's break into another, and we can problem solve etc. It has been most effective!

 

Scoutndad-I realize you have already stated that you are unable to attend Roundtables, however, I would suggest trying to form or asking your district to form a Webelos Transition Coordinator, such as I stated earlier. I took over as CC from a woman who did EVERYTHING, and knew I alone couldn't do it all! The pack was failing, and now my pack is thriving because I networked, and recruited, and got people involved! It was a very tough year, but each month I get so many compliments, and it is only because I have so many people involved and we are all working together so well. I believe that same mentality would work on the district level as well!

 

And although I know other districts will take you in for training etc, and that you are on the border for which district to be in, there is something to be said in the sense that all the boys hard earned $ from popcorn, and parents $ that was donated through FOS that goes back to the district you are chartered in, one would like to think the support would be returned!

 

I wish you the best of luck in this matter! Please let us know what you decided to do.

 

Jens3sons

[Scoutndad]

Wow...what a great idea...I had no idea that such a creature existed...Webelos Transition Coordinator.

Thanks for the great advice and if I can get someone to listen from our District, you can bet that I will volunteer to help make this happen.

THANK YOU!

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello, Scoundad

 

 

I admire you enthusiasm, and it sounds as though it is needed in your District. I would encourage you to become active as a volunteer in your District.

 

You might fit in very well as a Unit Commissioner, acting as a friend to a couple of struggling Cub Packs and helping to point them in the right direction. You might volunteer with your training, camping or outdoor committees to help start or support programs that are worthwhile.

 

If you worked with your District Membership Committee, you might help devise ways to make the transition from Webelos to Boy Scouts easier and more reliable.

 

I'm sure you are already busy with your Webelos activities, but this is something you should already be transferring to new Webelos leaders who will be taking over when you leave (unless you are planning to remain indefinitely. Even then, you should have an assistant or two who is learning to do the work and to take responsibility from you.

 

While it's easy for units to see the things that the District should be supplying for them, often Unit leaders don't see the things they should be doing for the District. In my view, units that vie themselves as being succesful ought to be identifying unit leaders who can do tasks and work at the District level. Perhaps that's something you could discuss at an upcoming Pack Committee Meeting.

 

 

Seattle Pioneer