Family Camping Vs Pack Overnights

[SeattlePioneer]

The Guide to Safe Scouting makes a distinction between Cub Scout Family Camping and Pack Overnights. The distinction seems to be that Cub Scout Family Camping has families in charge of their equipment, meals and program, with the Cub pack involved only as a secondary resource, if at all.

 

Indeed, it looks as though Cub Scout Family Camping could be a single family camping at a BSA camp by themselves, without any other families being present.

 

Cub Pack overnights seem to make the Cub Pack responsible for program, activities and meals, although the Pack can choose to delegate those functions or responsibilities to families if they choose to do so.

 

There are probably other places where these distinctions are discussed in more detail. I invite anyone who can provide more detailed references, or comments on my own limited understanding of the differences involved.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[madkins007]

While I cannot provide documentation, that is my understanding as well- who is responsible (or 'liable'.)

 

[jens3sons]

Seattle Pioneer, We just had our very FIRST Pack campout at a local forest preserve. It was my understanding that pack camping was not allowed up until last year, but many packs skirted the issue by going "family" camping, and just so happened all the families were part of the same pack. However, when our pack discovered last year that it was now allowed under certain guidelines, we started to get the wheels in motion. The proper paper work has to be filled with your council (and believe me, they do check ALL the paperwork (at least what they don't lose and make you resubmit ;-) ). We had to have the proper permits as well. Each boy and parent had to have medical forms filled out as well. The forest preserve we did our campout and combined the camp permit with the fire permit, so that saved us a step. The other thing was we had to have at least one person present with BALOO training. We had 2 with the training present, because if one of them had their kid get sick and had to pack up and go home, without another trained person, the rest of the pack would need to pack up and go home as well. We also already had a bunch of our leaders take the youth protection training.

Our pack formed a committe and each of them had different aspects of the planning to deal with. The 2 meals that we served (dinner and breakfast) was bought for and cooked by both the scouts and the fathers. For the cost of the 2 meals and the permit for the group camp at the forest preserve (we had 47 in attendance) we figured it cost about $5.75 a head. We had an awesome time!

We also formed the boys into 4 teams and appointed "team" leaders for each team. The leader had to keep his group together during a good portion of the campout, and each boy also needed to have a "buddy" for the hike and for going to the out house etc. They were required to use the buddy system at all times, and also to have water bottles etc. We also cooked according to team. Team one, would come up first and put their foil packets together, and then hand the packets to an adult to put over the fire etc. It kept things moving very nicely.

I hope this helped some.

Jens3sons

[SeattlePioneer]

Thanks describing your experiences, 3sons.

 

The Pack Overnight was last weekend, and the Troop I'm a part of camped with the Pack and assisted with the campout.

 

The Pack took an hour for a parent meeting, and the District sent a trainer in who described unfilled troop leadership positions and created an atmosphere that was highly conducive to parents volunteering to fill positions. Several did so.

 

It sounds like both you and we had a lot of good experiences. I'm a little surprised that you formed ad hoc teams and team leaders, rather than using the Den structure and leaders. Was there a reason not to use the dens?

 

Personally, I pushed for Dens to be used as the main way of organizing boys and activities, but the Cubmaster and Pack Committee didn't use that structure much except for an exercise in making Den flags.

 

My experience in Boy Scouts teaches me to do things by Patrols/Dens, and I think doing so on a campout would reduce the risk of boys getting lost in the shuffle, and keep them feeling a part of the group. However, this wasn't a big issue ---much to my surprise, there was very little in the way of fights, mayhem or lost and neglected children.

 

It did leave me feeling my age, though (55).

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

[fotoscout]

The difference seems to be semantic. The bottom line is that families should be invited and welcome on Cub Scout Camping trips.

 

Ive seen nothing that describes in detail how a Cub Scout Camping trip should be organized. So, how you do it will mainly depend on your expectations and ambition.

 

Some Packs firmly believe that Pack camping should be little more than a group of CS Families gathering together at a campground. Each family with their own campsite and agenda; and, each family doing their own thing. Maybe theyll have some group activities during the weekend like a campfire.

 

Other Packs believe in using the den structure to organize around. They might still do some ceremonies and other activities together as a Pack. But for most of the time the boys find themselves engaged with their own Dens doing age appropriate activities, possibly working on some of their outdoor requirements.

 

Still others, the very ambitious ones, structure the camping trip around the Pack. One big happy family! They do everything as a big group, including all their meals. They might schedule some den time, but thats not a priority to these Packs.

 

Personally I prefer using the den structure to build the trip around. First, it is the friendliest toward non camping families. Secondly, I do not want to struggle with other leaders in eliciting the expected behaviors from my boys.

 

This has been discussed many times. BSA may be wise to publish additional guidance in this area. If not, they might be wise to spell out the various methods that are commonly used for these camping trips, and teach people about the potential pitfalls of using each method.

 

[jens3sons]

Seattle- Yes there was a reason for forming teams instead of going by den. First off, we try and have Pack unity vs. a bunch of little cliques with dens, this way, each leader had boys in each rank on their team, and it allows the littler ones to look up to the bigger boys. Second, I would hate to think of putting a new Wolf Cub in charge of his den ;-) especially around a campfire! Third, we would've had about 6 teams instead of 4, would've taken even longer to get through meals. We had four teams formed like I stated. 2 of the leaders were 2nd year Webelos (they were the only ones from their den to attend...so that would've been a very small "team" anyways), and the other 2 leaders were first year Webelos. I think the mentality of having the teams allowed for what we were looking for with the pack unity, and yet still put that sense of "patrolling" out there.

 

I liked your idea about inviting district, and having a parent meeting durring that time! What a great way to recruit, when they are seeing the pack at their best, and having an awesome time camping...would maybe "light the fire" in some adults to volunteer ;-)!

 

Like I said, it was our very first time camping as a pack, and overall i think it was a HUGE success! Yes the evening meal took longer than expected, and we did have one boy show up without his father, that we had to problem solve, and of course he was the one to get hurt! Fortunately it was just a pinched finger in the water pump, and he was fine in about 20 min. but we did have to call his parents to come pick him up. If we had known in advanced only he could make it, we could've gotten an extra tent for him to sleep in, but we did not have a spare for him to sleep in with us, and we had no medical form for him, so he had to go home. But other than that, we went into this knowing there would be some kinks to iron out before the next time that we go camping, and I think the ones that do need ironing out are minor.

 

As for the age thing...if only our bodies would stay as young as our hearts and minds tell us that we are! =)

 

Happy Scouting!

Jens3sons