Whittling Chip AGE guidelines?

[ManyIrons]

FScouter and Scoutnut, it may just be me, but the "tone" of your last posts seem to have an edge to them. The posts from jteamnmj are requests for help, but your responses seem to be challenging her on the who can earn the Whittling Chip. She wants to agree with you and needs the ammo to convince her local Scouters.

 

If I've misinterpreted your intent, I apologize, if not then let's give the lady a break.

 

jteamnmj, press on with contacting your council -- if your CM is still unsure. What you've been told here is correct, but you may get less flack if you have a council contact to back you up.

 

YIS

[FScouter]

"... your responses seem to be challenging her on the who can earn the Whittling Chip."

I know exactly what jteamnmj is saying, as in my earlier days, I've been there many times. She want her son to earn the chip. The Cubmaster (or whoever) says "no way". She asks around, gets conflicting opinions. She wants a printed publication to settle the issue. It would be great if there was a publication that said "Cubs of any age may earn the chip", but there isn't.

 

My general stance is that statements from others presented as "facts" are only opinions unless they can be supported in the publications. Talk is cheap, but show me on what page that "fact" can be found. Otherwise it's just another personal opinion and I'll consider it with all the others before I make my own conclusion.

 

So, my response to jteamnmj is what I would ask of the Cubmaster (or whoever) that is saying "no way". Show me where I can read that and learn more about it. I'd much rather hear something to the effect that "some Wolf dens teach this, but I prefer to wait and cover it as part of the Bear program because there are so many other things Wolves can do, and waiting one year will help ensure that they will have a successful whittling experience", or words to that effect. Much less arrogant than NOT ALLOWED.

 

[jteamnmj]

Thanks everyone for your help. My husband who has just taken over as CubMaster will be emailing the unit commissioner and then will bring it up at the next Round Table as well as at our next committee meeting and see how they do things. As I had said my husband and I were resigned to have my son wait until he was a bear but if they say he can earn it along with his fellow younger scouts then my husband will make a push to allow the younger kids to do it. My husband has not said that they can't do it. He was under the impression that they were not allowed to do because the past cubmaster had only allowed the Bears an older earn it. My and my husbands intentions are not to be confrontational but to get the proper answers as we can not just walk into the local council and pick up the latest publications. We must order them which unfortunately can take a long time to get to us sometimes. My husband just wants the boys to have every possible opportunity they can. Again I would like to thank everyone for there help

 

ManyIrons: Thank You as well. I was just trying to ask a question but sometimes the words don't come out the way you intend.

 

Julie

 

[jteamnmj]

 

I have found what I was looking for. I looked through our leader book and it talks about Knives under Administration - Health and Safety as well as under Activities - Den and Pack Activies. I guess I should have looked there first instead of going by what our Pack has "always just done". I am very new to scouting. I didn't realize that my husband had recieved a new publication of it (IE : new being a 2003 version). The whittling issue never came up with us because we always just assumed that it was for Bears and older only because that was the way this pack and the pack we were in about 4 yrs ago did things. I would have never questioned this if the issue wouldn't have been on this board. Again, I appreciate everyones help in opening my eyes.

Julie

[ManyIrons]

FScouter, I think we agree. My point is that we can answer the questions and keep the tone pleasant. Your last paragraph communicated your message better than the post I was referring to.

 

jteamnmj, glad you've got the materials you need. Just a tip, when dealing with those who say only Bears can earn the Whittling Chip (or other points of difference), use the softer approach that FScouter mentioned. An earlier post of mine implied one should "whip out" the reference and cite chapter and verse. That's not what I really wanted to convey, but I really wanted to use that "loaded for bear" pun.

 

I assume you folks are military, when is your DEROS?

 

 

 

[jteamnmj]

ManyIrons

Yes we are military. We have about 16months left at this duty station and I am hoping we can get back to Virginia where we were originally stationed after this tour. Of course that all depends on what is available and whats best for my husbands career. We are slowly approaching retirement and my husband would like to become a professional scout once he retires. He really loves being involved with the scouts and couldn't wait for our son to come of age. We were involved in a pack about 4 yrs ago but because of deployments we were only able to do it for a year. Our son joined the Tiger ranks in June of 04 and hasn't looked back. He is taking to scouting like his dad. He absolutely loves it. Our pack invites the incoming 1st graders to come along on our last campout of the year to see if they really want to be in scouts. If they choose to stay then they can join once the school year has finished. This way they don't miss out on Summer Day Camp. My son is going to have wonderful stories to tell of his camping experiences with the British scouts as well as his camporee experience that we attended in Normandy France (this is held every 3 yrs and involves all of the American scout packs and troops in Europe).

We have a great committee as well a good bunch of leaders. I think they will be quite receptive to letting all the boys that want to earn there whittling chip do it. I honestly feel that this is just a case of this is the way it has always been done and nobody really looked into the fact that all boys could earn it. Will let you know how it all works out

Julie

[ScoutNut]

"FScouter and Scoutnut, it may just be me, but the "tone" of your last posts seem to have an edge to them."

 

 

I realize that jteamnmj was asking for help, but there are plenty of myths, urban legends, & just plain wrong info out there.

 

Jteamnmj was looking for sources that contradicted what she "saw everywhere". Not knowing exactly what she was reading, I thought it best to let her (& all lukers who might be scouting newbies) know that every BSA source I found (online & easily assessible to all) stated the opposite of what she was seeing.

 

As for my "tone", since I usually squeeze posts into free moments at work, I just had time to post the info only, not for pleasent chit chat.

 

BTW - Check your own tone before you begin chastising others about theirs.

 

JTEAMNMJ - I'm glad you found a hard copy source to show your committee. I would advise you get written parental permission before you start working with knives with the boys. Some parents might not be to keen on pocketknives for 1st or 2nd (or even 3rd/4th) graders.

 

[ManyIrons]

"BTW - Check your own tone before you begin chastising others about theirs."

 

Hmmmmmmm. I offered an apology up front when I mentioned the tone I perceived. There was no need for that comment. However, good point about parental permission for the knives.

 

I do try to watch my tone. I usually spend a bit of time composing my posts and try to keep it pleasant. If you think I'm ever out of line, please let me know and I'll correct it if necessary.

 

jteamnmj, well if Virginia doesn't work out, please consider the lovely environs of Scott AFB in Illinois. There's a nice little troop (and pack) just off base, which always has room around the table for another family.

 

[GopherJudy]

My son Mark started as a Bear Cub Scout & I remember in the Bear Handbook the Whittlin' Chip could be earned. My son & his den didn't do that requirement & I never questioned as to why. The boys earned their Whittlin' Chip card on a campout in June of 2004. Now the den that was a year behind them & were Bears when my son's den were Webelos I's earned the Whittlin' Chip as Bears, they carved Ivory Soap. My son & his den were instructed on the safety of using the pocketknife & then had to find a 1 inch thick stick to carve a peg out of it during the campout. Now my son's in Boy Scouts & will start working on his Totin' Chip. Every boy matures differently, some probably are able to be mature enough in 2nd grade & use a pocketknife & some aren't.

 

Judy

[Champ]

My son just finished his Tiger year and I am his Den Leader. While he is one of the more mature kids in his Den, I will not promote Whittling Chip until the Bear year. I'm sure my son could handle his knife, but why open that can of worms? Do we really want knives in the hands of 6 and 7 year olds? There are enough requirements and electives to earn at this age to keep them busy with loads of fun. I suggest holding off the whittling chip anyway. This will give the boys more incentive to stick with scouting, just like shooting BB guns was the big promotional item to want all kids to join!

[FScouter]

bump

[funscout]

I never realized youger scouts could earn the Whittling Chip card. I'm sure our Pack will still encourage parents to wait till their boy is at least a Bear. Many of our parents choose to wait till their boys are Webelos. My older son was responsible, so we let him earn his Whittling chip card as a Bear. Our younger son is a different story! We made him wait till he was in Webelos and he had to prove some responsibility before we allowed him to earn it. This was a great motivator for him to improve his behavior!

 

Personally, I wish the boys had to be at least 10, but that's just me. I always try to err on the side of caution.

[msnowman]

I am the DL for a mixed Wolf/Bear den. At the request of one of our Bears we did Whittling Chip this month. The Wolves were very attentive and capable. Safety and caution have been stressed. We were supposed to do our soap carvings yesterday but we got iced out.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with the specific group of boys involved. When Nephew was a Wolf I never would have considered doing WC with that group of boys.

 

YiS

Michelle