Age Restrictions on Power Tools

[OldGreyEagle]

Does anyone know if BSA has age restrictions on power tools? I have not been able to find any reference on this except for chain saws and log splitters are to be used only by authorized persons over 18.

 

It has been widely regarded that scouts (under 18) could not use power tools, is this right? Is there a reference one way or the other?

[Bob White]

Hi OGE,

To the best of my knowledge scouts are permitted to use power tools except for those specifically restricted in the Guide to Safe Scouting such as the ones you mentioned. Even as Webelos they use woodworking power tools.

 

You are of course expected to follow the Sweet 16 of Scouting safety as described in the GTSS.

especially; qualified adult supervision, operation and safety training, first aid equipment, personal protection equipment, proper work and safety area, discipline etc.

 

Bob

 

 

[slontwovvy]

There's something in the Venturing handbook about mechanical logcutters, etc. Can't remember what it is, if anyone has a venturing handbook check it out and tell us what it says, please.

[OldGreyEagle]

Thanks Bob and Slont, I appreciate your answers.

 

And Bob, I dont call what other people may say about you, I am glad you are a regular on this forum. If one of our past ex-presidents had been more of a rules and regulations guy, some major scandals would have been avoided.

 

And I found the "Sweet Sixteen" on the USSSP, again Thanks(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[eisely]

With boys you have to be sure that they have the physical strength and weight to control any machine you may consider letting them use. Almost anybody can handle a power drill, and the potential for injury and damage are relatively slight. A rotary saw is another matter however.

[Bob White]

Good point eisely, that is also one of the parts of the Sweet Sixteen of Safety.

Bob

[jark]

I recently got a clarification on the use of power tools by the scouts when helping with an Eagle project. According to our council office, the boy whose project is being done can use a power tool (within reason) after being properly instructed in its operation. He may then instruct other boys in the use of the tool and supervise their operation of it. This probably goes to the leadership part of the project.

 

Not all power tools are allowed of course, I was checking on the specific use of a jackhammer at a recent project and was informed (by council) that this type of equipment should only be used by those 18 and older.

[saltheart]

Ah...one of those issues that could be found in the "Common Misunderstandings" thread, eh?

 

For many years, we followed what we had been told by the old timers. Scouts were not to use power tools in Scouting activities unless, and only unless they were under the direct supervision of their own Mom & Dad (usually Dad way back then). Perhaps it was one of those common misundertandings...one of those things we took for granted for it seemed to make a lot of sense. Even today, 30 some odd years later, we still follow that rule. And that being said, we seem to have a lot more Dad's poking their nose into the activities to see if they can assist by being there to supervise their sons in projects that really do require power tools. If nothing else, is seems to provide a good incentive (or excuse) for some adults to get involved.

 

 

[mk9750]

Another document I better review more carefully!

 

We do a lot of service work for one our Coucil camps, and the boys use the log splitter constantly. Never gave it a thought, as it seems safer to me than, say a power saw, or even a bandsaw. We certainly never would let a boy use a chainsaw, regardless of the supervision provided.

 

Another case where we made up rules that made sense to us, but might not be legitimate. I will look up the reference tonight and educate others in our Troop.

 

Thanks for the info. And Bob, I agree with OGE. Although I have disagreed with you a couple times, your absence on this forum would be a loss to us all.

 

Mark

[SagerScout]

A scout in our troop was told by the Eagle board in emphatic, no-argument-allowed terms that neither he nor any other boy in the troop was to touch so much as a powered screwdriver in the completion of his Eagle project. Manual screwdrivers only. I am not making this up.

 

This is the same council that jumped on us for failing to have 2 adults in the living room supervising scouts - age 13-16- that were watching TV on a break from a troop garage sale. The adults were manning the sale in the front yard, 10 feet away. I'm not making this one up either.

 

Since said project involves building raised wheelchair-accessible planting beds for a nursing home and tilling 140 feet by 10 feet flower beds, it seems to me that it dumps an awful lot of work on the parents and other available adults that could just as well be done by the Eagle scout and the team he has assembled - several of whom, I may point out, are nearly grown men themselves. I found it absurd for the council to tell the three life scouts in our troop, all of whom are very mature, over 6 feet tall and 200+ pounds, that they are not "big enough" to handle a power drill. All three have worked construction projects with their dad since age 13 or so. My own son (age 15, not one of the 3 mentioned above) is allowed to use all our power tools with next-room supervision, except the circular saw which requires in-room supervision.

 

SOOOO, how do y'all suggest I correct this considering he's already been given very strict marching orders on this issue? The first workday is scheduled for Saturday. It is now Thursday. Rapid replies very much appreciated.

 

And BTW, we sure could use some boy-help with the power tillers too.

 

 

julia

[saltheart]

I'll defer to the many venerable expert authorities hereabouts for specific tactics, but I'd venture a guess that no matter what your Eagle Board has stated, if they can not produce a BSA publication that states the same thing and backs up what they seem to feel is the law (according to them), then your candidate and troop is not subject to their whims of authority.

 

I'll share one thought, though, regarding the where from and how this notion of no-power-tools-for-Scouts may have come about. Insurance liability. If it's not published in black and white on paper in a BSA publication, then it's unenforcable, even if the intent (safety in this case, avoiding potential liability to the BSA) was noble. And I'm sure that the adult coverage planned for this particular project and candidate is more than adequate, so he can venture forth. Of course, this is not to say that there won't be a rocky road ahead as you attempt to show the board that they're wrong...unless they can produce that document we've all thought to exist only to find it perhaps erroneous.

 

Good luck.

[Twocubdad]

That's crazy. My Webelos use scrollsaws, bandsaws, power sanders, brad tackers drills and drill presses working on Pinewood Derbies and Craftsman pin projects. Of course it's in an EXTREMELY controlled situation -- one-on-one instruction, close supervision (usually me or another adult who knows what they're doing with my hands holding the Scouts' hands or just inches away) and usually with the Scouts' parents helping. These are all low velocity, low power tools. You would have to totally ignore all safety rules to get hurt on one of these. I wouldn't want a Webelos-aged boy using a table saw, radial arm saw or jointer.

 

I've seen more injuries with hand tools than with power tools.

 

I also got a chuckle that some councils put jack hammers in the same category as chainsaws and log splitters. Unless you drop one on your foot or get a hernia picking one up, I'm not sure how you get hurt with a jack hammer.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Just to be sure I went over the Guide to Safe Scouting again, I still only see chainsaws and mechanical log splitters as the only "tool" a scout cant use.

 

This "Eagle Board" who are they? If they are volunteer scouters functioning as part of the District's Advancement Commitee they have the power to approve and reject Eagle projects, but they cant rewrite BSA policy. Portable power screwdrivers are the only way many projects get done in a day without causing severe acute carpal tunnel syndrome and a multitude of palm blisters and a 12 year old with a 20 (or so) volt screwdriver can be no more dangerous than one with an ax,(which BSA willingly hands him, and rightly so)

 

When I read statements such as "...our Council says..."

I want to ask, who in Council? the scout executive? a district executive, a field director? a clerk? Somebody who answered the phone? or a volunteer scouter talking about how he/she wished scouting would be? What reference are you using? Saying "I've always heard ot said..." is a nice dodge, but only that, its not proof and its not policy.

 

Now, to be safe, I would be sure any scout, or adult for that matter, who picks up a power tool gets "checked out" by the projects safety officer to establish competency on the device. It may be anything to establishing the saw belongs to the operator to watching the scout use the tool. Be sure eye protection is used as well as any other safety device specific to that tool. And then let the fun begin.

 

As a teen I helped a few friends rebuild big block V-8's and we would routinely switch the rear end of a 68 Dodge Charger (440) from regular to an 4:11 axle and back again in a night. Beleive me, we didnt use manula tools but our fathers made sure we could use the power ones before they left us alone.

 

 

 

[evmori]

Interesting discussion. While the G2SS only lists minimal tools by name that Scout's can't use, what does the Troop insurance say regarding this liablilty? I don't have a copy of my Troop policy with me so I'm not sure but I will look into this ASAP.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Insurance BSA Youth accident insurance is very simple in coverage. A scout receives the benefits of the policy if he is injured during actvivities that he is participating in as a scout. There are no exceptions based on the appropriateness of the activity, that is the responsibility of the adults who are leading the activity. If the activity is not monitored and managed in accordance with the policies and procedures as published by the BSA then the adult will lose the protection of the BSA liability protection and be exposed to possible losses through civil suits leveled by the families of the injured parties or by the scouting organization.

 

Uniforms

You will find the best description of the various official uniforms in the BSA's insignia Guide. It is available at you local council service center.

 

BW