eisely Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Thans for the compliments gang. Responding to LV's points about paddles. Everything he says is correct, but, unless people own their own paddles, you will have to use what is provided. In selecting a paddle, stand it on the ground in front of you. It should come to about your chin. I actually prefer mine to be a bit longer. Every outfitter I have seen provides the cheapest possible paddles. These have plastic blades and grips mounted on a frail aluminum piece of pipe. If this is what you are stuck with, consider carrying a little sandpaper to smooth off the grips. These are usually pretty beat up. I have yet to see blisters caused by these grips, but paddling with a rough grip is like hiking with a rock in your shoe. You should carry an extra paddle in each canoe. Coming back to the canoes themselves, I want to condemn in the strongest possible terms the heavy fiberglass canoes manufactured by Coleman. Coleman should stick to lanterns and stoves, that they do very well, and get out of the canoe business. Their weight reduces their load carrying capacity. This doesn't matter for paddling around the pond on a Sunday afternoon, but it is potentially dangerous for a long trip carrying a lot of gear. These canoes are easy to overload, reducing the freeboard, and the margin of safety when the going gets tough. Further, I got stuck with a newer Coleman recently in a group event. In the newer Colemans they are putting the flotation tanks under the seats, making proper kneeling impossible. Ugh. Don't use them. The only advantage to Coleman is the cost. That is why they are favored by some rental outfits. You really need to ask about the manufacture of the canoes. Be sure to carry duct tape. Great for patching canoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 In canoeing it is the rule that someone will eventually flip their boat... Use buddy pairs, buddy boats, and buddy groups for safety. When crossing large open expansives of water keep your boats within the radius of your throwing lines. Wind, swells, and current can distance a person from their boat fairly quickly. A small, bright red, orange, or yellow nylon stuff sack can also be stored in a PFD's pocket, and can be used as a boot over the paddle's blade, making it easier to be spotted should this happen. Just remember not to let go of the paddle as you go overboard..... For order of rescue in flatwater use, people, boat, gear as the rule. For swift water, the rule is people, gear, boat. For T rescues (or boat over boat), brace the assisting boat with another In cold weather on cold water have an emergency rewarming plan ready to go. For summer, don't forget sun block, and sun blocking clothing as canoes can turn into reflector ovens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 E., looks like we posted about the same time, just know that I agree with you concering the Coleman's. Useable for ponds, and small lakes. But worthless for serious river running. But, with the new seats, the proper kneeling is even more impossible for the bowman, forcing that person way to forward.... Better to spend the bucks and get a good boat (Old Town, Mohawk, etc.). Even if the boat is used, it'll still be better than a new Coleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Continuing regarding equipment... People need different footwear for paddle sports. For a canoe expedition I recommend wearing Teva sandles or something similar. One needs to be able to wade while loading, launching, and landing the canoes. Rubber boots such as kayakers and scuba divers wear are an alternative. Personally I prefer sandles. If a scout cannot afford sandles, an old beat up pair of sneakers can be used. The main disadvantage to sneakers is that they bring a lot of water into the canoe with them. Everyone should bring some kind of device to kneel on. Some people wear sports knee pads. I prefer the small foam kneeling pads sold by gardening stores. If you have a large group you might be able to purchase a large piece of foam and cut kneeling pads for everybody. Buying the garden kneeling pads is a very expensive way to buy foam. Everybody should construct and have a bailer available while underway. In some highly regulated areas, bailers are required by the authorities. You can make a bailer out of a round gallon plastic jug such as cleaning agents and windshield washer fluid come in. You take a knife and cut the body at an angle, removing the bottom and ending up with something that looks like a scoop. Obviously you have to save the cap for the jug. Some twine should be used to secure this to a thwart in the canoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I got to thinking about the footwear advice and realize that I left something out. Why is footwear important? You load and unload the canoes while they are floating, to the extent possible. If you load a canoe while it is beached, not only are you stressing the canoe, but then you have to lift the canoe and all its contents to launch. Therefore you want footwear in which you can wade. Which brings me to the point I left out. The cheap rubber sandles, commonly referred to as "flip flops," that we wear to the beach or around the swimming pool, do not work for this purpose. When you are wading in the water carrying a load, backing up, and turning, you need something that is firmly attached to your heel as well as your toes. You can actually trip in this shallow water environment wearing flip flops. And it is spelled sandal, not sandle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Some misc. thoughts before my ISP disconnects.... In crossing wide lakes, bays or rivers consider an early morning put in. The cool air will be more stable with less wind and chop on the water than later in the afternoon. Begin inching more shoreward as the afternoon wears on so as not to get caught out in the middle of someplace you'd rather not be should a T storm pop up. On waterways with ship traffic be aware that these big guys will generate both a bow wake, and a sternwake, along with screw trubulance astern. Keep your distance, and yield the right of way (common on the lower James, and the Chesapeke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sst3rd Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Le Voyegeur, You bring up great points in floating the James. Our Troop was camping down from Hopewell at Sherwood Forest (home of John Tyler), and I realized that our Scouts were not used to canoeing on a "moving" river. They weren't used to the tide coming and going, nor have they seen ships so close up. I gave them some pointers, as they were only going to fish near the shore. I always bring up the story of temporarily losing two older Scouts, several years ago, at this very spot. They were inexperienced canoeist on the river, and were quickly swept up river towards Hopewell. I had a motorboat, and found them about a mile from camp. One was paddling, and the other was exhausted. They were actually loosing ground to the river. Lessons were learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 sst3rd I see that you're up in the Richmond area, if you ever tempted to bring your unit down this way to play on either Merchant Millpond, or Bennett's Creek, or ???.... shoot me an E,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sst3rd Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Le Voyageur, Will do. Those are new places to me. I'll look 'em up. Are you on Staff at Blue Ridge this summer? I'll touch base with you then. Thanks, sst3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Here's a link that I've found, it's not the best, but it'll give you an ideal of what the Millpond is like... http://www.wildriveroutfitters.com/events/trips/merchant.htm The Millpond is located in Gates County, NC, below Suffolk, best time for canoeing is autum and spring. For myself I enjoy paddling into an area of the Millpond called Lassiter's Swamp to enjoy a place called the Enchanted Forest, a grove of Cypress estimated being around a 1,000 years old. Neat Place! I'm now exploring nearby Sarem Creek, which is fairly wild and pristine. If I can fine suitable campsites, I would have no problem guiding a very small group (6 to 8) into the area. And yes, I on the staff at Blue Ridge, won't be hard to find, look for an old geezer wearing a bright red tuque with a pom pom. and an assumption sash....LOL,we don't blend in with the rest of the staff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Long Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Wow, the millpond looks like the Okeefenokee swamp. Unfortunately most of the Okee is in flames right now. Ah well, circle of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 For those who may wish to learn more about canoe design and construction, visit www.oldtowncanoe.com This is the website for Oldtown Canoe Company, and they have a section on canoe characteristics and design. For those who would like more information about canoeable rivers visit www.canoe-camping.org This is a privately maintained website that has loads of highly detailed information on various rivers around the USA with lots of pictures. Excellent site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 I read an article in Canoe & Kayak magazine that made a point that eluded me earlier. This has to do with fish hooks and lures. If you are going in an area where there is a lot of fishing, you need to be wary of abandoned hooks as a special hazard. This applies to swimming and canoe handling. It is also an argument for ensuring that people have appropriate footwear. In this regard it should be noted that footwear manufacturers now produce specialized footwear for kayaking and canoeing. These are actual shoes that can be taken into the water that drain quickly They are expensive and probably would not be a good buy for youth with rapidly growing feet. Bon Voyage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy_D Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 I've read some great advice on this topic. One thing that we do on the trips is have the boys use 5 or 6 gallon buckets to keep their things in. Each scout is allowed 2 buckets, and a wet bag for poles, sunscreen, etc.Since we are in Florida most of the kids use a large fruit bag.This seems to work work very well. Also rememeber to tie your gear down in the canoe. We learned the hard way this last trip when two boys forgot to tie down the stove. Live and Learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraT7 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I like the buckets idea - bumped this up for many of us canoeing soon- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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