50 Miler primarily afloat?

[Capndar]

Anyone have any experience with the 50 Miler primarily afloat?

[le Voyageur]

Yes. How can I help?

[Mike Long]

Me too.

[Capndar]

What were the main issues different than 'afoot'? How did you 'do it'? canoe, raft. kayak?

[nldscout]

I would be interested in any planning as far as equipment, meals, etc. We are taking our older scouts on a 62 mile 5 day canoe trip on one of the local rivers. We are trying to stretch their wings on more then regular summer camp. So anything you can provide for planning help would be appreciated. either here or private email is fine

 

Paul

[nldscout]

I would be interested in any planning as far as equipment, meals, etc. We are taking our older scouts on a 62 mile 5 day canoe trip on one of the local rivers. We are trying to stretch their wings on more then regular summer camp. So anything you can provide for planning help would be appreciated. either here or private email is fine

 

Paul

[eisely]

I have led many flat water canoe expeditions, but have no real whitewater experience. I can only advise from the experience that I have. These are a few thoughts off the top of my head.

 

Canoe camping is more akin to car camping, in that you are less restricted in what you can carry compared to backpacking.

 

The first issue is the equipment you will be using. Make sure you know the load capacity of the canoes you will be using. You need to allow at least 8 inches of freeboard to ensure safety. Heavy canoes, such as canoes made of fiberglass have flotation tanks to keep them afloat when swamped, but do not have anywhere near the carrying capacity of other types.

 

The second issue is the experience and training of your people. While it is safe to take inexperienced paddlers on an expedition in mild conditions, you need to understand what they are capable of in the conditions you expect. If there is any real whitewater involved, then everybody should have some training and experience. Do not allow the scouts to buddy up by themselves, but match inexperienced paddlers with more experienced paddlers.

 

Are you going through an area surrounded by private land or public lands? Do you have fixed destinations at designated camp sites, or plan to select sites as you go along? I believe that in most states, private land owners do not own the land between the river banks. Therefore many canoe campers camp on sand and gravel bars to avoid trespass issues. You need to find out about this and secure the necessary permissions and/or reservations.

 

You need to think about how you will pack your gear. If this is truly flatwater in mild conditions it is generally sufficient to used duffel bags lined with trash bags secured with ties. Otherwise you will need dry bags.

 

Are you getting your craft through an outfitter? Is the outfitter providing guides? Are guides necessary or required? Is the outfitter providing shuttle service? If you are not using an outfitter how will you transport your craft and provide shuttles?

 

Be sure to read the Guide to Safe Scouting section on water activities. There are some very specific requirements for these types of trips.

 

How will you deal with human waste? In some places the use of composting portable potties is required. If you are camping on sand bars you can't just dig a hole and pollute the river.

 

What are the conditions of the river you are going to travel? Are there frequent and unpredictable changes in flow and stage? Are there dams that need to be portaged? Low head dams can be very dangerous and you need to know if there are any, where they are, and how they are marked. What other kind of river traffic can be expected? Do your people know how to contend with wakes kicked up by power boats?

 

There are publications on canoe camping. The scout Field Guide has a chapter on this. There is also a web site. I forget the link, but just searh "canoe camping" and you will probably find it. This site has a lot of useful information.

[le Voyageur]

Great post eisley....solid advice

 

[got ISP problems - gotta go before I get disconnected again. Back soon]

[eisely]

As previously requested, here are some more thoughts, this time on food.

 

One of the nice things about canoe camping is that you have the possibility of moving beyond dehydrated food. You may find your route takes you past marinas or other opportunities to buy ice for an ice chest, and ice cream as an enroute treat. On many of the flatwater expeditions I have been involved with we have taken ice chests and fresh foods. This challenges the boys' food preparation and planning skills, and frankly, takes up time at the end of the day, helping keep people busy and out of trouble. With good planning one can eat very well on a float trip down a river. If you are having to portage between lakes, then you will want to revert to a backpacking mode of thinking.

 

If you can legally build a campfire you need to check into fuel availability along the route. Even if you have to take your own wood, you probably will have the capacity to carry it in your canoes. You may need, or simply want, to use a fire pan to teach leave no trace principles.

 

If you can build a fire, then this is a good opportunity to simply do foil cooking with fresh ingredients. You can also make a makeshift dutch oven out of two pans and cook things like corn bread, cobblers, etc. Or you may simply want to haul a dutch oven along. When we have planned cooking over a fire we usually take charcoal along for this purpose - more heat output for the bulk and weight. If you carry charcoal, wrap it in an extra trash bag. Spontaneous combustion is possible with wet charcoal.

 

I have never been bothered by critters on a canoe trip, but you do need to consider food storage if there are bears or similar intrusive beasts along your route. You may not have trees available for bear bags, so you may want to use bear cannisters.

 

Clearly water availability is not a problem, but you need to plan on filtering or treating your water, and taking along enough collapsible water storage capacity.

 

Wish I was going with you.

[eisely]

Here are some more thoughts about personal gear and packing.

 

After my last expedition I am going to set a limit on the cubic volume of gear taken by individuals. Some people took along tents that were overly large and exceeded our needs. It was also difficult to find clear ground to pitch those larger tents. Limit tents to no more than three man tents and make sure that all slots are used.

 

Personal gear and tents should be packed in duffel bags lined with trashbags as noted above, or in dry bags, depending on conditions.

 

Clothing needs to be appropriate for the climate and season. However, even in the coldest weather everyone was quite comfortable in either shorts of swim suits while paddling. Upper body clothing should include a minimum of a t shirt while paddling. Do not overdress while underway. You will be working hard, if on flatwater, and will not need extra layers. Extra layers can become a danger if you end up in the water.

 

Wearing PFDs is mandatory. I have personally had a near death experience where the PFD saved me. If you are traveling in rainy weather, do not allow people to paddle while wearing a pancho. If you end up in the water wearing a pancho, you will be severely hindered to say the least.

 

Sunblock, lipbalm with sun protection, broad brimmed hats with chin straps, and sunglasses are strongly advised. Eyeglasses need to be secure.

 

Personal items such as wallets need to be put in their own ziplock bags in your pockets, or possibly a fanny pack secured to a thwart.

 

Pack and plan as if you are going to dunk yourself and all your gear. Secure gear to the canoe as much as possible. Gear that is properly sealed will float of its own accord for a long time, so actual loss of gear is rare.

 

If there is any current (assuming you are going downstream) you want to load the canoe to trim the bow down somewhat. This is difficult with heavy dads in the stern and lightweight boys in the bow, but it makes a difference. I always put the heaviest gear between the bow seat and the midship thwart, and up under the bow deck if possible. If you are on a lake going into a wind you want to trim the bow down. If the wind is coming from behind trim the stern down.

 

You want to pack the gear so that it does not project above the canoe and catch the wind. Sometimes this unavoidable.

[eisely]

Continuing to expound ... sorry, you got me started.

 

One of the questions posed was how is a float trip different from backpacking? One of the big differences is finding your way. Unless you are canoeing across multiple connecting lakes, it is almost impossible to get lost. You are just going downstream. You still need a map, because you need to keep track of where you are. It is easy to miss your takeout point if you have not been there before or know of specific landmarks.

 

Since nobody publishes plastic river maps useful for this purpose like a trail map, you will have to rely on USGS maps. I recommend you obtain maps of 1:100,000 scale. You really do not need the same level of detail as you might need in backpacking. You will have to special order these. If you go to a local map store, it may require some explanation to the clerks as to what you are looking for. I found the younger people at my local Rand McNally store completely ignorant of these maps and how to use the index. If you cannot get a watertight map case, use a ziplock bag.

 

One further thought on fuel for campfires. If you need to carry your own firewood, the fake logs you buy in a store are an excellent option. If you use this type of firewood, put it into trash bags to keep it dry.

[Mike Long]

I was going to respond earlier but Eisely is on a roll and frankly he's stating just what I was plus more. I'll defer to his postings.

 

Good stuff Eisely, I'm getting some great info here too.

 

 

[Mike Long]

Oh yeah, as far as bear bagging on a float trip see LVs thread titled "Bear bagging smarter" in the camping & high adventure section.

 

Brilliant technique.

[Quixote]

Eisely said You are just going downstream

 

While i agree with you, an interesting note from the PLC on monday when the topic of our June canoe trip down the Delawere came up - one of the PL's (a Life Scout) seriously asked if we were paddling up or down the river.

[le Voyageur]

Yep! E. is doing an outstanding job...good, solid info. Just a few minor details to touch on...

 

PFD's - consider Class III's for comfort. They also offer a bit more protection for the torso in the event of the spill.

Consider outfitting each PFD in the group with a simple CPR face shield [mine is equipped with, besides the CPR shield, a set of airways, latex gloves, EMT shears, knife, folding handsaw, flashlight, cyalume, 2 carabiners, marine flare/smoke bomb, small airhorn, a short range twoway radio, and a cell phone with a list of key phone numbers].

 

Paddles - consider the grip, and how it fits your hand. Look/feel for fricton spots. For flatwater the best paddle length is one that keeps you from lifting your grip hand higher than your shoulders.

 

Bent blades, beavertails, and narrow deepwater ottertails are great for flatwater, but do little for control in swift water. A broad blade, straight shaft with a t-handle grip works better overall. The length of the paddle should allow for highbraces with steep lean angles.

 

Would like to stress what E. said about punchos, please keep them off of the river. In swift water they are a death trap...

 

Again, E., a great posts, an extra helping of cobbler your way...