den dues

[mbscoutmom]

I'm taking over as cc from my husband in a month, and thinking about making a few changes in how our pack is run. One thing that has bugged me since my husband became a den leader 3 years ago is that den leaders have to supply everything for the den meeting. Scouts pay no dues. In fact, they pay nothing after the initial registration fee, as the pack pays re-registration fees and even buys them a Boy's Life subscription. They pay only for food on camp outs, and a few other minor fees. All the money the pack needs comes from fundraisers, but we don't even keep a record of which boys' families participate in them! Next year, my husband and I will both be den leaders, and even though I keep costs for supplies down as much as possible, it will be hard on our finances. Some of the families in our pack are poor, but most could afford to pay dues. How do most packs handle this?

[briantshore]

Well, I was a little slow, becouse this topic was going to be my next question I was going to ask this forum. You just beat me to the it. I was thinking $3.00 per month off the top of my head. I do not think I have any of my boys in the assistance bracket, but if I did I would ask that family to be my scroungers. There are always things that one would throw away that could help. Klinex boxes, empty can goods, scraps of cloth. Also they may have old school supplies that they do not use.

[ScoutNut]

There are a few things you could do. Some Packs give a certain amount of Pack money to each den for expenses. Some Packs have the den leaders turn in receipts to the Pack treasurer to be reimbursed. Some Packs leave it up to the den leaders to handle & the den leaders will charge their boys whatever den dues they feel is fair.

 

Do you have somewhere at your meeting place that you can store supplies? If it would be asscessable to all dens maybe the Pack could purchase some supplies for everyones use. You could put together a large Rubbermaid container of supplies for your den. Have each family bring in some things for the "Supply Box". Before going out to purchase things, ask your den families first if they already have any they could donate to the den.

 

We have a Pack supply cabinet that holds a lot of stuff. Leftover's from different den's activites are stored for everyones use. If someone gets resources from an organization (fire coloring books, leaf IDs, nutrition, etc) they try to get enough for everyone. As the supplies get used everyone pitches in to replace them.

 

I do not charge my Tiger den dues, because with Shared Leadership each family brings the supplies for the activites they are doing. When I had my son's den I charged about $7-$10 per scout for the year depending on what we were doing.

 

You should not be spending all of your family money on den supplies. I am sure your den families would be happy to help, you just have to let them know how.

[huhwhut]

As a new wolf den leader this year. I have my boys bring $1/per meeting for den dues. At the first meeting of the year I told the boys they neeeded to earn the money by doing extra chores around the house. It has worked out well. It doesn't cover all that I spend, but it helps. I have the boys mark off that they have paid on a piece of paper wrapped around a empty coffee can. I have never really looked at who has or not paid, the boys monitor it themselves.

[fotoscout]

Financing your operation is never "fun". It is necessary and hopefully not something that you lose sleep over. Cub Scout packs too often follow the previous regimes program without taking a long hard look at the unit finances. I will assume that you have some idea of what it costs to run your pack for a year.

 

The first thing you need to ask yourself is; what should the Pack pay for, and what should the dens be paying for? Every unit has different answers. The answer is critical. Spend some time discussing this with your committee and DL's, as it will govern everything that comes next.

 

Next, ask the question; what do we want to be the units primary source of income; Family's, Charter Organization, or Fundraising. Critical here is the question of, how do you handle family's that do no Fundraising?

 

My unit collects $8.00 per month from each boy. We ask for it as a single payment early in the year. The pack gets half the money, and the Dens get half the money. The treasurer holds all the money. Tigers also pay $20.80 registration & BL. No one else pays for registration or BL. We also do the popcorn fundraiser each year.

 

DL's can use the money at their discretion, and request reimbursement from the Treasurer. Pack money goes toward re-registration's, awards, pack night supplies, Pinewood Derby Costs and a small amount of supplemental funding to B&G. Trips, campouts, day camp, district and Council events are paid by the family's. For us this works.

 

Another unit I'm familiar with, funds it's entire operation on Fundraisers. It works for them, but they are constantly involved in the details of distributing product and collecting money. They also have many family's that just say, 'Tell me what I owe and don't bother me with another fundraiser'. This unit has a plan for that option.

 

If you're going to fund your operation with fundraisers, it is important that you have a plan for dealing with the people who do not contribute to the effort. In one case I know of, a DL refuses to do any Fundraising and would not ask the parents for some money in lieu of Fundraising. The committee accepted it for a time. But now the committee has had enough, and is in the process of going around the DL to get to the parents. I suspect the DL didn't want to be bothered and refused to pass the Fundraising requests to the parents.

To make along story short, it's not pretty. Lets face it; barring a real hardship, each family should pay its own way through scouting.

 

Im sure youd like someone to give you an answer, but every unit is different. My suggestion is that you put everything on the table and discuss it. Dont be too afraid to charge the parents. Too many people do fundraisers simply because they are afraid to ask for money from the parents. Also, consider this.......How much time do you want your Scouts and Parents to consume with fundraisers instead of doing Scout activities.

 

Pack finances should be openly discussed with anyone who is interested. Use that interest to Gage your approach.

 

 

[Torveaux]

I hate den dues. I think they take away from the fun aspect of Scouting by making everything dependent upon the almighty dollar. Our kids already have a job board that earns them up to $5 per week (generally it comes out to less than $2. 10% goes to the Church, 50% goes to the bank. The rest is for learning to manage a few dollars.) That being said, there are obviously costs involved in some projects.

 

I think fundraising is best centralized. While I tend to pay for den items myself (unless we spending more than a couple of bucks per kid), the Pack would reimburse me if I wanted to submit them. Remember that these donations are tax deductible as well. We only 'charge' for events that have an entry fee (sporting events and the like). Everything else is paid for by our fundraisers (almost exclusively through popcorn sales).

 

Also, while I completely understand the resentment some people feel toward those who do not participate fully in the fundraisers, is it really worth getting all worked up about? If it is getting to be a problem, you can always make the fundraising mandatory (either sell popcorn or contribute more in direct donations).

 

We are even going to start having those who sell popcorn get their next year's dues paid by the Pack. Maybe that is an alternative. If you really need Den Dues, I would recommend having a flat rate at the beginning of the year with an option to offset it through fundraising participation. (if the cash flow is too much for a poor family, work it out individually).

[fotoscout]

Torveaux, I think we need to be careful here that no one gets the wrong impression. It is not anticipated nor expected that any Den Leader or Adult leader of BSA pay, out of pocket, for the operations of his/her unit, or den beyond the equal share being shouldered by other parents in that unit or den.

Sure, some (most) of us, spend some money out of pocket, but it is not expected and should not be expected by anyone! On the contrary, parents (and the boys) should expect to pay for the Scouting program, especially at the den level. Unfortunately, in todays world it has become increasingly difficult to get the boys to drop their few dollars in the bucket each week, so many accommodations have been made. Den leaders must have some capital to work with. I also fear for the precedent that this practice sets up......Johnny's Den doesn't pay dues and look at all the fun stuff they do, why do we have to pay dues, it isn't fair!

Barring hardships, I happen to believe that freeloaders on the roster are a very big deal. It is quite simply unfair to have them draining resources from the unit. Also remember that often these are people who just dont want to be bothered with another fundraiser. They might have all the money in the world but unless you ask, you'll never get a red cent from them.

[ScoutMomAng]

I lead 40 girl scouts and 8 Webelos cub scouts so paying for things for the troop or den is completely OUT OF THE QUESTION this year. I did it for the past three years though and decided this year it couldn't be that way. I posed the question to the parents. They all agreed that den dues needed to be paid. We do fundraisers but that is to cover the "FUN things". They all agreed to this:

 

$5.00 a month, payable the first den meeting of the month to the den leader. (of course I had to remind many of them). If they wanted to or felt they could handle it they could pay it in lump sums as much as possible.

 

Any money left at the end of the year went for a pizza party for the boys at the end of the year. I still ended up paying for some stuff out of my pocket but nothing like in the past.

 

The girls, however, are different and a WHOLE different subject!!!!

 

Hope that helps you out.

 

One word of advice: If they make checks, it might be a good idea to have them make the checks payable to you, not the pack, for it might take time to get the money back to you. A receipt book is also a good idea (one with duplicate copies...one for you...one for them). They don't have to keep their copy but if you have a copy in the book then no unanswered questions like, "Didn't I pay you for den dues this month already????"

 

Angela

[Torveaux]

foto,

 

Sorry you got the wrong impression. I did not intend to suggest that anyone is expected to do as I do. The key is that our Pack covers the expenses as needed, not the individual dens.

 

In our cases, people would rather have the money flow through the Pack treasurer than to have each DL 'managing' funds. When we do things as a den that cost significant money, the parents pay as they go.

 

My biggest objection is the hidden cost portion. If we need annual dues to be $100, fine, make it $100. By using fundraisers you can avoid having any real dues. I think we are going to add Scout Accounts so those who participate in the fundraisers can defray the cost of camps and other incidentals.

[Scoutndad]

From Tigers through Bears, my den had a monthly due of $1.00 per scout. For the monthly due, the scouts were encouraged to turn in recyclable pop cans or do extra chores.

 

 

At the Pinewood Derby while the scouts are Bears (soon to be Webelos), the den families sponsor (purchase, cook and run) the concession stand during the Derby. All proceeds go directly to the Webelos and helps fund all activities without the monthly den dues.

 

As a Pack, we have decide to ask for a $10.00 annual due per Scout. This is new and was a result of auditing prior Cubmaster, CC and Den Leader history to determine how much was coming out of pocket. It was decided that we should try to understand and budget the needs of the pack and the dens, and create more awareness from our parents. As a result, we have quarterly financial sheets so everyone can see where we stand. We also are not bashful by asking local organizations if they would help sponsor our Pack annually (we currently have a commitment from the local Knights of Columbus to help bus tables at 6 of their pancake breakfasts per year and they agree to donate 50% of the proceeds of the breakfast).

We also make everyone aware that any that needs assistance should let our Cubmaster know since we don't want to exclude any scout the opportunity to have the time of their life.

 

We also encourage local businesses to donate odds and ends as much as we encourage the Pack families to do the same.

 

Hope this helps since my pockets were not deep and I quickly recognized how this would become a burden.

[ScoutMomAng]

Since we are speaking of asking for donations and the like did you know?

 

1. That Wal~Mart will donate up to $50.00 per month, in merchandise, to an organization, provided you go in and fill out the form on or before the 15th day of the month BEFORE you need the donation. (This is good for getting paper, plates, cups, napkins or anything else your pack, or den can use)

 

2. That Wal~Mart has a VAP program for their employees and it works in two ways. First if you have a parent in your den or pack or troop that works for Wal~Mart and is helping you out at least 25 hours per 6 month period (Jan-June and July-December) then that person needs to go to the Wal~Mart where they work and speak to their Community representative (if they don't know who that is they need to get with their manager). If they contribute that much time the pack or Troop will get $250.00 checks twice a year...just because, from Wal~Mart.

 

The second way it works is....If you can get a bunch of Wal~Mart employees to help you out on a big project, (say Pinewood Derby, or building a float) but that is the only time they volunteer so they don't total 25 hours seperately but together they do then your pack or troop will be granted a check from the VAP program that can be up to $1,000.00

 

Our pack has 4 Wal~Mart employees that volunteer so our pack sees $1,000.00 every six months from Wal~Mart.

 

Just thought you ought to know.

 

Ang

[mbscoutmom]

Thanks for all the wonderful ideas! I didn't really want to ask for dues right now because we're asking all the families to volunteer more of their time next year. Don't want to hit them with too many demands at once! I like the idea of asking families for their surplus supplies and keeping them in the scout closet for all the dens to use. I'll check out our local Wal-Mart to see if they'll donate some bins to keep the supplies in. And I think the pack can afford to let den leaders turn in receipts for supplies they can't get from the closet. You guys are great!