beltloops

[Locust Fork Leader]

Our pack had some problems with that too. We decided to let the boys earn the belt loops if the entire den was offered the same chance at the belt loop. Our Webelos have earned quite a few this year because this ban had been lifted and they are requirements of the pins they are earning. Also the belt loops are limited to 2 per den to be earned during each month.

[MATHJESS]

I think these parents need to get more involved in the commitee end of these packs as it is not the cubmaster that makes the policies governing the pack.if it takes a vote to raise yearly dues to help support the pack.

[MATHJESS]

I think these parents need to get more involved in the commitee end of these packs as it is not the cubmaster that makes the policies governing the pack.if it takes a vote to raise yearly dues to help support the pack.

[Torveaux]

Sounds like a fund raising/dues issue to me.

 

We have a $20 due payment each year that includes their Boy's Life subscription. All of the other money comes in from Popcorn sales. The Pack has a positive balance and we can buy any of those items that need buying.

 

My personal gift to Scouting has been to pick up the awards that my Den earns myself. I can write off the expense on my taxes as a gift to the Cub Scouts and with only 8 or 9 boys it runs less than $20 per month (often much less). The 'optional' programs help keep many boys interested.

 

I do feel your pain on some leadership being uninterested in the various other awards. I let people know what is out there and we cover what we can as a den, but ultimately, the Cubs and their parents need to want to participate and to fund it, whether that is through dues, fund-raising, or payments. I think having the parents pay for the boys awards as needed really sends the wrong message. 'If you work harder, it will cost more.'

 

 

[mknowles]

Hello All,

 

What Our Pack does is when a new boy joins we collect $35 one time. This is added to the pack funds. This goes to buy the awards and such that the boys earn. When it comes tme to recharter then the parents just pay the $10. When our boys join we give them their scarf and book which is paid for out of the $35 fee. We have had very few parents object to this. It's not that much compared to baseball or soccor fees.

 

[scotiacat]

Wow!! Someone else in the same situation as us. I am glad this came up as a topic.

 

After getting raked over the coals for my comments about the uniform in "Pants: dorky & uncomfortable" and "scouts in limbo", this is exactly our problem. Why are we so many concerned about the uniform when the ENTIRE Scouting program isn't being offered by packs? Which is the bigger crime?

 

Our situation is this, our pack will not buy the beltloops, "too expensive" is what we were told. Also, no temp patches as well, that includes the 75th Anniversary patch. So, when my son completes the World Conservation next year and doesn't get recognized, then what? He already qualifies to earn the 75th Anny patch but won't get it because of the same situation, "it costs too much money"?

 

My son has qualified for 5 beltloops but can't receive them, this is silly to me. He is one requirement (on two different loops) shy of earning two more, at a Tiger rank no less! Should I buy them? I have voluntered to do so for him and some other boys. Imagine when the boys went to the District Pinewood Derby meet and saw the other boys with their loops.

[ScoutNut]

If your Pack will not purchase the belt loops (or any other unrestricted award) that your son has earned, then yes, you should purchase them yourself.

 

You can ask your CM if he has a problem awarding them at a Pack meeting. If he does, then award them at a Den meeting.

 

 

[scotiacat]

ScoutNut, I see a few problems with that thnking.

 

1.. Doesn't someone (other than a parent, like the DL or someone) need to fill out the application for the award? If not, then any parent can walk into their Council office and request awards, patches and the like without actually doing them. What does that serve?

 

2.. If I do buy them, do I let my son, for that matter the parents of the other boys as well to wear the loops/temp patches? What kind of can of worms will that open?

 

Again I ask, why are we so concerned about the uniform when the ENTIRE Scouting program isn't being offered by packs? Which is the bigger crime?

[johndaigler]

scotiacat,

 

First, I hope you didn't feel my posts in the "Limbo" thread were "raking you over the coals". I thought I was just answering your question and offering suggestions for activities.

 

Second, if you and other parents are willing to pay for patches, beltloops, etc. your CM can't keep your boys from wearing them. He might not appreciate your end run, but you'll force the conversation on the issue -- especially if other boys and parents see the bling!bling! and want some o' their own.

 

Third, with the exception of rank badges, anyone with $ can buy patches and belt loops in the two service centers near me. You're right, they wouldn't have much 'value' to anyone who didn't truly earn them, but the Council gets it's 6%, so ...

 

If you're willing to see the worms crawl, I say crack open your wallet and go shopping. Actually, why don't you try to get your Den parents involved, as well? When the conversation turns edgy - and it will - and you're standing alone, it's not always enough to be right.

 

jd

[ScoutNut]

At the Cub Scout level the Unit Advancement Report is for Rank awards only. There are order sheets for some other awards, like the various 75th Anniv, but they are basically to make ordering easier. Most awards that are considered "unrestricted", like Belt Loops/Pins, can simply be purchased at your local Scout Shop by anyone.

 

Remember, for Loops/Pins & many other things, the award is signed off & approved by the parents.

 

Your Pack isn't NOT offering the entire Scouting program. It is simply saying they will not pay for the extra awards.

 

You son (& other boys from what you stated) has obviously been participating in and earning the various other awards.

 

You don't say if you hold a leadership position in the Pack. If you are in fact a Den Leader then you can talk to your Committee Chair about the Pack purchasing the awards for the boys if their parents pay for them. I do not see how they would have a problem with that as the Pack would not be using any Pack money. As Den Leader you could also collect the money for the awards from the Parents of the boys who have earned them, and then go yourself to purchase the awards. You could then either present them to the boys at a Pack meeting or a Den meeting.

 

If you are simply an interested parent than I suggest you talk to your Den Leader about parents paying for awards the Pack can't afford.

 

When the rest of the boys in the Pack see either the boys receiving the awards, or the boys wearing awards they received at Den meetings, then maybe they will be interested enough to earn them also.

 

As I said, I really can't see a problem if the parents are willing to pay.

 

If the parents refuse to pay and want the Pack to pay for anything & everything, regardless of weather the Pack has the funds for it, then that is a whole different problem.

 

[Torveaux]

ScoutNut,

 

The way I understood the problem in this case was that the Pack leadership did not even want to award the beltloops or acknowledge the program. The cost can be high, especially since many of the sports beltloops require nothing more than being on a team and explaining the rules to the parent or DL.

 

I had one boy insist he had earned 12 beltloops. When I talked to him about them, one of the requirements was to have made a poster for and shared it with the den. He had clearly not done that part. I think the program is very good and I think the Pack should pay for the 1st loop, but I would also like to see the program use the DLs (or Pack designated person) to approve the explanation of the 'rules'. For some boys it can distract from the progress toward ranks as well. This same boy is only about 1/2 way through his Bear and here it is almost May.

[Cardinal]

I've seen both sides of this one. I love that the BSA created this program so that the boys get some flashy recognition. It also gets them interested in lot's of different academics and sports.

 

But when I see them earning 5 or 6 loops in the dead of winter, I start to wonder if we're not awarding them for stuff they already did too much.

 

And how many boys even know what they did to earn badges anymore? We had a bear ceremony recently where I tried to get them to say what they had done in any of the areas for the badge: God, Country, Family, Self. What awesome silence! While I wouldn't try that again, I do wonder if we even tell them what they are working on. I remember reading my handbooks for hours.

 

And as for the special badges, I've said here before how I was waiting for the 75th Anniversary Badges to come out. I had our year planned and was using the theme for everything.

 

But at >$4 each we would have had at least$160 just for that one badge. And they easily could have earned 2 or three of them. Why even have so many related badges?

 

I'm getting sick of the BSA trying to get more money out of the program.

 

Scouting is growing in popularity in our town. Parents seem to like that it gives them some framework for teaching their own values.

 

But the greater BSA is looking greedy, yet broke.

 

I think this is a topic for a different thread, but the underlying theme is this: let the boys know what they are earning, make them work for it, reward them publicly. If some of the boys seem to get into more of the program than the others, see what happens. No body likes to split the bill evenly if one person always orders steak when the others are getting burgers for lunch. But everyone should recognize the honor of someone earning one of the scout religious awards. As for the extras, parent pins, etc. maybe buy your own.