Open and Closing Ceremonies

[gungho4scouts]

With the wisdom of EagleDad regarding the Tiger Cub program, I figured it would be best to ask for some ideas of how to tackle another sensitive subject.

 

How would you approach someone who is the TDL and assistance TDL,(both who rarely wears their uniforms, and doesn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance during Pack Meetings), to implement the PoA as part to the Den meetings?

 

I'm not just a Adult Partner, formally the TDL who did the PoA as part of the opening, but now a CMA if that helps.

 

GungHo

[DougWaterfield]

 

I would suggest that you somehow make it part of their training. Whether or not they have prior Scouting experience, they need to be trained as DL and ADL. If you work it into that context it may be more acceptable to them. If you have a regular Den Leader's meeting, have a topic on how meetings should be run. Make sure that you emphasize why the PoA is important as part of Scouting (doing your duty...). Same thing could be done for the uniform issue.

 

If the indirect approach does not work you may have to sit down with them to discuss it. If you do, I'd suggest that you make it clear that this is not just your opinion -- this is what the Cub Scout program requires.

 

It's a touchy situation. Good luck!

 

Just my 2 cents,

 

Doug

 

[ScoutNut]

Well, actually, the Cub Scout program does not require it. Opening and closing ceremonies and uniforms are not required in the BSA.

 

They are certainly a good idea, but not required.

 

Opening ceremonies also do not have to be only the Pledge. There are lots of different ones out there. Repetition of the Promise, Law, and Motto (Tiger & Cub), with the Scout Handshake and Sign thrown in is a great way to do both openings and closings. Lots of different variations you can use.

 

As Cubmaster you could purchase a copy of the Cub Program Helps for the Tiger Den Leaders. Ask them to copy the Tiger pages for the rest of the Tiger families to use as a reference for when they do their meetings.

 

Also - Your CO could require, as a pre-req for leadership, that adult volunteers be fully trained. That might help a lot.

 

[gungho4scouts]

That's part of the problem; the TDL is trained.

 

There's a beauitful story in the book: "The Scouting Way". On Day 2, John McCain describes how the PoA helped sustain him and his fellow POW's. "...how important it was for us to be able to pledge our allegiance to our flag and country."

 

But I can hear the agruement; they are too young. This in my humble opinion this is hog-wash.

[fotoscout]

You need to take this up with your Committee Chair and, if you have a realationship with your Charter Org. take it up with them as well

[DougWaterfield]

ScoutNut - you're correct, an opening ceremony with the PoA is not a program requirement. Once I looked back at my early notes I saw that it was "highly recommended" by my Pack. This is the sort of thing I hope to continue through our Den Leader meetings -- we can share program ideas and discuss things like how meetings should be conducted.

 

On the other hand, the PoA does come up in several requirements of one of the Wolf achievements. Assuming the TDL moves up with his den, he'll have to deal with it next year! My Den has one of the boys lead the PoA every week to satisty one of the requirements. I also brought in a recording of Red Skelton's speech about the PoA and played it for the boys (you can download it many places on the web).

 

I am a little puzzled about the "too young" argument. Our school system has the students saying the PoA in Kindergarten. How are 1st graders too young? I agree, that's hogwash.

 

As for whether uniforms are required or not -- I have been reading the forums over the past few weeks and I've seen many long winded arguments about what is or isn't required by the scouting program. I don't want to get drawn into that sort of debate. Our pack requires uniforms of our adult leaders and I agree with that policy. Honestly I cannot see how your TDL can expect the boys to wear their uniforms properly without setting an example!

 

 

Doug

 

[DougWaterfield]

 

(This message has been edited by DougWaterfield)

[DougWaterfield]

(sorry for the repeats, not sure why that happened!)(This message has been edited by DougWaterfield)

[gungho4scouts]

"I've been listening to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance all semester and it seems as though it is becoming monotonous to you. If I may, may I recite it and try to explain to you the meaning of each word?"

 

I

 

me, an individual, a committee of one.

 

Pledge

 

dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self pity.

 

Allegiance

 

my love and my devotion.

 

To the flag

 

our standard, Old Glory, a symbol of freedom. Wherever she waves, there's respect because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts freedom is everybody's job!

 

United

 

that means that we have all come together.

 

States

 

individual communities that have united into 48 great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose; all divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose, and that's love for country.

 

And to the republic

 

a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people.

 

For which it stands, one nation

 

one nation, meaning "so blessed by God"

 

Indivisible

 

incapable of being divided.

 

With liberty

 

which is freedom -- the right of power to live one's own life without threats, fear or some sort of retaliation.

 

And Justice

 

the principle or quality of dealing fairly with others.

 

For all

 

which means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.

 

Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance...

 

UNDER GOD

 

Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too?

[Bob58]

Gung-Ho, that reminds me of a piece that Doug referenced. The one that comedian Red Skelton used to do.

 

A few thoughts, some may have already been tossed out.

 

...start by always including tghe Pledge in Pack mtng or Court Of Honor openings.

...if the dens meet in the same location try a joint opening ceremony. Let the the boys (Bears?) who need to conduct a ceremnony for advancement plan it. They will love it. Perhaps the Tigers will begin asking why they don't say it at den meetings.

 

If the leaders are actually avoiding the Pledge think before taking action; actually plan how you will approach this. Consider having your COR (Charter Organization Representative) visit a committee meeting & addressing the value that they place on active citizenship. I'm thinking that this might be rather subtle. If that doesn't move them in the right direction, put it on the agenda of your nect committee meeting, make a motion to open each/every meeting w/ the Pledge, a prayer & cermony leader's choice of Scout items. Once its been voted on & written into the committees minutes the den leaders might realize how important it is to your unit.

 

This is exactly where the rubber hits the road in the relationship between BSA & the chartered partners. The agreement is to foster the aims of both to the detriment of neither.

 

As noted its not required but if citizenship is one of the three Aims of Scouting leaders owe parents the whole program. While leaders might be hard to come by remember that the Chartering Organization signs off on the Adult Application. That implies endorsement or approval of those individuals as leaders. If they don't meet the sponsoring organizations standards, recruit new leaders. The fact that they are leaders does not mean that they must be leaders next year. (or even next month!)

 

Recruit & train your leaders. Whenever poissible form search / selection committees & examine the needs. Then approach the person best suited for the job. I've had to steer volunteers into areas where they can serve but do little damage (on both the unit & district level.) You have no obligation to allow a volunteer to undermine the program.

 

 

[gungho4scouts]

I apologize for not including the Late Great Mr. Red Skelton's name to the post.

 

A quick search on Google found the actual broadcast of his words, include John Waynes on the same subject.

 

But I fear it will fall on deaf ears for the audience I have in mind.

[ScoutNut]

You said you have a son in Tigers. For the meetings you have signed up to run, open with the PoA.

 

I doubt you will have much luck getting the Cubmaster, Committee, and Charter Organization to force a den leader to use one particular type of opening in their den meetings. However, if you want to try, the place to start is at your Committee meeting. That is also the place to discuss leaders wearing the uniform.

 

Meanwhile, you can make sure you wear your uniform to den (orange Tiger shirt) and Pack (reg BSA Cub uniform as asst CM) meetings. You can encourage other Tiger Partners to wear their uniform to den meetings and also to use the PoA when they do the meetings. This might get the den leader to do the same himself.

 

[gungho4scouts]

Are you suggesting the Adult Partners wear the Orange Shirts? And as a CMA am I not suppose to wear my Leader uniform?

[ScoutNut]

"Are you suggesting the Adult Partners wear the Orange Shirts?"

 

Of course! Hats too if they like!

 

"And as a CMA am I not suppose to wear my Leader uniform?"

 

Not to your son's Tiger den meeting. You are there as an Adult Partner only, not as Asst Cubmaster. You wear your regular BSA uniform to the Pack meetings because there your main role is that of Asst. Cubmaster.