Help! Tiger Den Falling Apart (longish)

[cubmaster73]

I have a great new Tiger Den Leader this year who was an Eagle Scout, and is very excited about scouting. I think he is a great guy and is really motivated about scouting and making sure achievments get done, but the den is falling apart and I need some advice.

 

A little back ground on the pack. We are a small pack of about 23 boys total. Our Tiger Den usually is our biggest den but this year it seems to have fallen apart. There are about 3 or boys that are active in the den including the Den Leaders son, when the year began there were about 7.

 

The first couple of den meetings went well then it started going down hill. One of the parents confronted the Den Leader over Den Dues, meetings every week, and so on during the den activities. Basically disrupted the whole meeting. That same parent pulled thier son from the den and quit scouting. This parent is friends with the assisstant den leader, and has called me and said that if I would place the assistant in charge of the den she would allowher son to come back.

 

The den leaders son has very bad asthma and was in the hospital a couple of weeks and they were forced to cancel some meetngs and the assistant den leader took over some meetings. Ever since his son left the hospital they have been 1/2 hour late for meetings and some times don't show up at all. Now the assistant den leader calls me and says she is wanting to quit because the den leader is making things difficult on her.

 

I think ever since the confrontation with the parent it kind of ruined the motivation of the leader, but the assistant den leader still wants to make the den run. She is just frustrated by the den leaders actions. the assisstant den leader asked to have a meeting with me and the den leader to sort things out.

 

Has anyone been through this before? If so, how did you handle it, and what was the outcome?

 

Thanks

[WWBPD]

Cubmaster,

As a CM and SM I have had to step into numerous parents issues over the years. You do need to meet with the DL and ADL to sort this out as soon as possible, find out the real issues (which are never what they appear to be), and figure out how to make this work for everybody. It may be that the DL is so fed up that he is willing to step aside or maybe work in a different capacity (sounds like he could be a good CMA). It is so early in the year and in the Tigers' scouting careers that this should be a salvagable situation if it is addressed in a straight forward, honest and compassionate manner with the goal of 'what can we do to make sure your child has a scouting experience." Right now it just sounds like everybody is frustrated, which is typical for new Tiger leaders that have no experience with the program. It sounds like things DL may have been a little too gung-ho (weekly meetings for Tigers? motivated to ge achievements done) and folks were a little put off by that. The only way to correct the situation is to listen and understand, and use your wisdom (and that of your committee) to figure out how everyone can benefit. Let us know how the meeting goes.

 

WWBPD

Deut. 23:13

[ScoutNut]

Tiger Dens can be fickle. Sometimes you have families just "trying out" Scouting and unless you can hook them in they give up at the first soccer game. The key is to make it FUN for the boys AND the adults!

 

There is nothing wrong with Tigers meeting weekly. As a matter of fact that is how the BSA program helps for Tigers are laid out. You have 2 regular meetings, 1 field trip (Go-See-It) meeting, and 1 Pack meeting each month.

 

One problem with your Tiger Den could be that it does not sound like they are following the Tiger program and using Shared Leadership. The Tiger families should all be signing up to lead meetings. This way the Den Leader is not doing EVERYTHING and the families are learning about Scouting and working together as a team.

 

I agree that you should sit down with both leaders and find out what is going on. I would not be to quick to go along with the complaints of the one former family however. That sounds like a personality clash to me. Your goals should be to help your Tiger Leaders work better together, make sure the Tigers are getting a good program, and find ways to increase and/or fix the Tiger membership. Are both leaders trained? If not, get them trained ASAP. It will help.

[cubmaster73]

Thank you for the advice. I had considered asking the DL if he had wanted to be ACM. Maybe that should be my course of action. Ask him to be ACM and make the ADL DL. that way everybody wins and everybody saves face.

I think he would make a great CM when he gets a little experience and I get ready to move on.

 

[fotoscout]

First, although the DL and ADL are the key figures in the den , the Tiger Program is intended to be shared. I effect if the DL has become a lighting rod, then he is not allowing the parents to do enough, or have enough involvement. Certainly the DL personal issues with his sons health outweigh his scouting responsibilities. He may not longer be able to do the job. Dont be afraid, ask the question!!!

 

I think we all know that BSA wants everyone to meet weekly, but I am not a proponent of weekly den meetings for Tigers. There is too much potential to burnout the parents and kids this early in the program. Lets face it, these are still very young boys and there are real limitations to what you can do with them. I would suggest setting up a less intensive schedule, but stick to the schedule that you put in place.

 

As for the guy who is grousing about dues, there is always someone who complains about money. Your should become familiar with your packs financial plan, then explain to him where the money goes. As you close the discussion with him, be sure to let him know that Scouting is available to all, even if they have trouble paying registration and dues. Let him know that both the Pack and Council have programs to help Scouts with a financial need. Would you like to speak with someone about that?? One way or the other, this will put an end to his grousing.

 

[EagleInKY]

I echo what Foto had to say.

 

From my own experience, Tigers was a shaky program. This was back in the days of iron-on paws, for those that remember them. We started with 10, rechartered 4 months later with 6 or 7 of them. I think 4 or 5 came back for Wolves. After that, we probably lost about one of them per year through Cubs. We added 4 new Cubs at the start of Wolves, and we saw a much higher retention rate with that group. It's now 7 years later, 2 of those original 10 are still active Scouts, while all 4 of the ones added as Wolves are still Scouts (although 2 have recently left to join another unit, they are still in Scouting).

 

My point is this, starting as Tigers is not a requirement for success in Scouts. I continue to see lots of turnover in the Tiger ranks. (I realize my view is very limited to my little corner of the earth.) Don't get down on the den falling apart. Do the things suggested here and hopefully they'll make it through the year. Recruit strong next year, and continue to build for the future.

[cubbingcarol]

I agree with fotoscout and eagleinky, I finished Tigers last year with 3 out of 7 boys. Only 3 stayed in for Wolves (my son and a set of twins that did not even come to meetings after November during the Tiger cub year). We have since signed up 5 more boys for a total of 8 and all but one of them are active and faithful. Even those twins are faithful and have really blossomed! Tigers are a great concept but things don't always work out as great as the concept itself.

 

JMHO,

Carol

[cubmaster73]

I want to tahnk you all again for the advice. I had a meeting tonight with the leaders of the den and some changes have been made. The old DL is now going to be my ACM and the ADL is now the DL. All around they agreed with the changes and it seems like a weight has been lifted from the den.

 

My new ACM is really excited about me taking him under my wing, and besides we have 10 Webelos Moving to BS next year and I need him to help with recruiting.

 

Again,I can't tell you how much I appreciate you advise. Thanks to all.

[gungho4scouts]

Struggled with trying to understand the issues surrounding the Tiger Cub program, too. Why they are treated different even if BSA has change their status as being the same as the rest of the Pack. Hope EagleDad doesn't mind, but I wanted to share his words that has given me a better understanding of the issues at hand.

 

Hi All,

 

We averaged less than 50% crossovers. When we decided

to fix the program, I called parents to ask them what

the problem was with Tigers. Tiger age boys are first

graders. For most parents, first grade is also the age

where both the parents and their sons moving from the

toddler phase into elementary and more independent

elementary phase of the boys and parents life. It

sounds silly, but this is a very big step for both the

parents and the boys. I found the parents are

overwhelmed with the sudden changed of their sons

going to all day school, little league practice and/or

piano practice after school. Saturdays are taken up

with little league games and half of Sunday with

church and Sunday school. Not only that, they are

reluctant to allow this change in their culture to

change. Moms arent ready to give up their babies and

dads arent ready to give up golf. On Cub Roundup

night, I found some Tiger parents to be at the very

least irritably cautious with those on the other side

just plan defensive at the thought of trying to fit

one more program into their family schedule. I

remember watching one parent carrying his Tiger aged

son crying and sucking his thumb wondering was

scouting really a good thing for this family.

 

We changed our program that year and our numbers

change to averaged 85% to 90% crossing over to wolves

the following years I was in the pack.

 

Here is what we did. Our first meeting was a breakfast

on a Saturday morning at a small local lake. We

brought fishing equipment and bait, and we cooked

pancakes, sausage and lots of coffee (for the

parents). We had a blast and for many of those

families, this was the first time the boys had ever

fished. After about an hour and half of fishing,

eating and just plan having a ball, we had a quick

meeting. We told the parents that this was their

program. We asked that they have two one hour meetings

a month and one of those meetings could be the Pack

meeting if they choose, which we suggested. We

suggested they not meet at anyones home because we

found that tended to turn into parents meeting in one

room and the boys playing in another. We gave some

suggestions like touring the fire station or police

station or going to the zoo and so on. We also ask

that one parent be responsible for one month to

organize where they would meeting and call all the

parents. And then we signed up each family for only

one month.

 

That was basically it. We found that when the parent

chooses the meeting place, they worked to fit it in

the group schedule, not the packs. They dont feel so

pressed for time or intruded on their own personal

time. Just about everything they did allowed the

parents to get to know each other and the boys were

allowed to act their age. Since we mainly ask they

take a tour of some place fun, there wasnt a lot

planning taken out of their personal time. By only

taking on one month, the parents werent over whelmed

with the program and they usually bonded with the

group by making the calls that one month.

 

We also assigned a Tiger leader who usually was a

Tiger parent the year before. Their job was basically

passing along any pack information and to check on the

families to make sure everything was going OK. They

were told that if the Tigers were struggling, they

needed to learn that so we could jump in to help them.

 

I firmly believe that Tigers is not about the boys;

its about the parents. So its the parents we worked

to satisfy. If they are satisfied with the program,

they will bring their sons back next year. We didnt

want them to feel burdened by the program, but only to

get a taste of the fun. We hoped that they would go to

Pack meetings to see the fun there and start to feel

comfortable with the program in general. Come about

February, we started looking for a leader for the next

year. Our Tiger leader usually had a good feel for the

parents knew who would want to be a Wolf leader. Come

March, we would approach that person and ask them to

get Den Leader training to see if they would like the

position, and to hold a two meetings in May. At the

end of May we would graduate the boys and the adult

leader into Wolves and life was sweet.

 

This worked well the seven years I was in the pack.

 

The Tiger program has changed twice since then. It

basically requires the groups to meet every week now.

I had predicted that when they made that change, it

would five years later hurt the Webelos to Troops

numbers because it would burn out the adults. I

havent seen those numbers change, but I have seen

that the Tigers to wolves numbers are worse. I tried

to work with the Council on this but they just dont

track these numbers that close, so I can only tell you

what is going on in our District. Some packs do OK

with Tigers, but they put a lot of time into their

Tiger program. A lot more than it should take. Our

Tiger program was easy because the parents basically

took charge with us just monitoring to keep it on

track. Presently one of our better packs in our

District doesnt start recruiting until the Wolf age.

There numbers are as good as ever, which proves that

you dont need to grab the boys early to get them into

scouting. But the professionals cant stand a program

that has a zero in one of the age groups, so the pack

leaders have to put up with a lot of stuff.

 

I am not suggesting what you should do, but hopefully

I have give a little better understanding of why the

Tiger program is the hardest program to maintain in

Scouting. Hopefully you can find what you need to

change to make your program work. Make it fun for the

parents, and you will keep the whole family.

 

Barry