Help - knife safety uestion

[missymoose71]

Something has been brought to my attention and I *THOUGHT* I had a perfect solution but it's not working.

 

At our last Tiger Go-See-It (hike), one of the Tigers AND his father were sporting a 6" Buck knife on their belts. I was not there but I heard from several parents that they were concerned & did not know how to handle the situation. It was uncomfortable to confront the father when he, himself, was wearing a knife.

 

I scoured the Guide to Safe Scouting to see at what age a Scout (Cub/Boy)was permitted to carry any type of knife. I know that our Bears earned their whittling chip last year but still were not permitted to carry a pocket knife to any scouting event unless the den leader "needed the tool" for a project.

 

I was hoping to find some information that I could present at the Pack meeting - - along with the popcorn prizes - - most of which are pocket knifes as a reminder of knife protocol. I cannot however find any helpful information that can let the parents subtly know that knives are not permitted at scouting events.

 

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

 

Thanks.

Missy

[EagleInKY]

Sheath knives are not prohibited. However, the Guide to Safe Scouting does recommend against them. It states:

 

"Avoid large sheath knives."

 

However, to your immediate issue. Cubs are not to carry knives until they earn their Whittling Chip as a Bear. You need to tell the dad that his son can't carry his knife until then. At that time you can address the issues of safety and why sheath knives are discouraged.

[Bob White]

I would explain to the parent that at this level of cubbing the boys will not be in activities or situations where knives are a needed or useful tool to have with them. That there is also a safety issue regarding the other boys to consider as well. Tell dad that when his son becomes a Bear scout he will recieve traning in the care of, and operation of, a pocket knife. And until that time he will need to leave all knives at home.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[fotoscout]

This sounds like either a caricature or a Norman Rockwell imitation. I know of no one who would allow a Tiger Scout aged boy walk around with a knife like this strapped to his belt.

 

This is an opportunity for you to show leadership and remove the knife from the boy. It is simply inappropriate! As a parent, I would have been VERY concerned and nervous during this outing. I would have been VERY happy to see the leader address the problem promptly by separating the boy and his knife.

 

[johndaigler]

Welcome, MissyMoose!!

 

The Whittlin Chip can be earned before Bear year.

 

However, this "certification" only gives the Cub permission to have a knife at "approved" Cub activities. We "approve" our Cubs using a knife only for very specific activities. These would NOT include Den or Pack meetings, GoSeeIts or any trip. More to the point, we never approve Cubs "carrying" knives.

 

At our last campout, there were craft activities that involved some knife work. If Cubs had their Whittlin Chip, they could use their knives. However, the knives were brought by and kept by parents up to and immediately following the activity. I handled the knife work for those Cubs without their Chips.

 

It's probably too late to reconsider the knives as popcorn prizes, but ...

 

jd

 

BTW, Foto makes a great point about demonstrating leadership and the concerns of/for the other Cub families. Understandable that you'd be uncomfortable dealing with the Dad who's wearing one, but imagine how the other parents and Cubs probably feel. Though, it's a lot easier to write about then to do it...

 

(This message has been edited by johndaigler)(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[Trevorum]

Funny story -- At our last campout we hosted two patrols of Webelos and their parents. Saturday afternoon, one of the Webelos came running up with blood dripping from his finger. He had cut through the fingernail with a knife. I put direct pressure on it while an ASM grabbed the Med Bag. The new parents watched attentively as I did 1st Aid. Then his mom ran up, worried, and asked what had happened. I was about to recommend that she take him to the ER. I said, "Well, I'm not a Doctor, but ...", when one of the other parents who had been watching the whole show piped up, "I am. I'm a hand surgeon." I gaped at him. "Well, you seemed to be doing a good job..." he trailed off.

 

Later, I found out the kid's mom was a physician, too!

(3 stitches and he was back in time for cobbler).

[hops_scout]

Nice. Let's see how many doctors we can get without anybody saying anything:) LOL

 

My old denleader ( other than my mom) was a nurse or something similar and her husband is actually our family doctor and team doctor for football.

 

I think our DE was saying that for at least one of the camps that our council/ district (something, not sure) hosts each year, they just ask for volunteers that are EMTs, nurses, doctors, etc

 

PS-- Number 1000!(This message has been edited by hops_scout)

[Grumpy]

I am amazed at how many folks think that a Cub Scout may not earn his Whittlin Chip before Bear rank, and that a Cub Scout who is Bear MUST earn the Whittlin Chip.

 

I am also amazed at folks who say "It was uncomfortable to confront the father when he, himself, was wearing a knife" or "As a parent, I would have been VERY concerned and nervous during this outing". Why would that make anyone uncomfortable, concerned, or nervous. If the knife was concealed, all would be comfortable and at ease. A knife cannot hurt anyone while in it's sheath. If he had been cleaning his nails with it, I would have had a problem with it.

 

Now, that being said, it is kind of crazy for a Tiger Cub to have a sheath knife on his belt. What is that parent thinking? Maybe it was a pencil holder?

[FScouter]

"A knife cannot hurt anyone while in it's sheath."

 

Trouble is, boys being the way they are, the knife will spend more time out of the sheath than in.

[anarchist]

interesting...

first to FSCOUTER...While NO Cub should carry a sheath knife, Missymoose71 did not say that the tiger or his dad ever misused the knives...so your comment about 'boys and the knife spending more time out of the sheath' was both wrong and gratuitous...(example - I have guns...'boys being boys...they will play with my guns!?!'... both my sons were taught gun safety and have never touched a weapon without permission...so much for boys...).

 

that said...If this is truely a problem, the Pack should send out several messages to all the parents that knives are unwelcome at activities...Scouts do not carry them ever(?) and if the are brought to activities by scouts the group leaders will ask that they be left behind or locked away in a vehicle. Play by the rules of the pack or don't play at all. Or what ever policy the pack feels is appropriate.

 

I am drawn to the comment about being uncomfortable about confronting the offending parent...jeeze was he a ranting rabid neo- conservative or something. He may have just never heard of the BSA "policy"/reservation on sheath knives (as was our troop CC on his first campout with us years ago wearing his Navy K-Bar, though he still does carry it and still has not turned into a slasher or cut off any digets).

 

Perhaps a quiet, 'off to the side, information sharing' moment with the 'knife dad' would have resulted in an immediate solution...however I would be just as worried about a group of tiger/cubs folks where the parents were so afraid of each other they couldn't even share a safety concern...goodness!

 

and I don't think I'd give these folks knives as prizes. (just a joke)Make a call, send a newsletter, solve the problem...

[mschwartz]

The post about when to do whittling chip caught my eye... My older son got his whittling chip as a Bear, but he was the only one in his den to do it. And he is now about to lead his Webelos II den through it (with plenty of supervision of course!). I am the den leader for my younger son's Bear den - and I have no intention of even trying to do whittling chip this year, the majority of the boys just aren't ready for it!

 

Bottom line - I think that the question of when to do whittling chip (or if to do it at all) is heavily dependent on the boys with which you are working.

[ScoutNut]

Several of my Tigers opted for knives as a popcorn prize this year. I made sure to let them know that they are not allowed to carry them until they earn their Whittlin' Card. One of the dads piped up and said that Whittlin' Card or no, he first had to earn the Mom Approval Card and that was not going to happen for quite a while!

 

 

[fotoscout]

I did Whittling Chip with my boys last year when they were Bears. Although some of the boys are always less mature than others, I would by no means say that they were not ready for this.

 

They did a terrific job of learning the safety principles and of respecting their knives. Mom and Dad are of course the final authority when it comes to carrying a knife, but if Mom says no, its no.

 

I think it was very stupid to put knives into the prize selection. Mom and Dad tell little Johnny its ok to select a knife as his Cub Scout Popcorn prize, then the Cubmaster hands out the prizes at Pack Night, and has to tell little Johnny that he has to wait 1,2, or 3 years until he can carry and use his new knife. Its hypocritical at the least, down right stupid and embarrassing at the most.

 

By the way, Id like to know what little Tiger Cub thought he was going to do with a big knife??

 

[gungho4scouts]

Why do any of the Cub Scouts have to wait to earn and carry their knives in approved settings? Is there an unwritten rule, because according to the written rule any Cub Scout (Tiger, Wolves, Bear...) can. If there's something different, please let me know where that is in Black and White and I'll follow the rules to the T'ee.

 

My son is all of 7 years old, he cuts his own meat even while we are out. Yes, he has cut his finger with a knife, but guess what, he lives. (The best part is that he fully respects it even more.) And he knows that he's not allowed to use a knife without my being present.

 

I do agree that for the purpose of Scouting, only the pocket knife should be used and carried by either Adult or Child during Scouting activities. So leave out the part about the his son carring a knife, just let him know about carring anything beside the pocket knife... Then as a group open a training class for everyone to earn their whittlin cards but limit the number of Boys that can be in the class as a one time thing, etc.

[FScouter]

"By the way, Id like to know what little Tiger Cub thought he was going to do with a big knife??"

Either he's being prepared to skin a buck, or he's learning to be macho, like his dad.