Tiger Cub Go See It - Does a School Field Trip Count?

[Greg Nelson]

Let me pick y'all's brain here. Here's the situation.

 

We were planning to do our fire/police station Go See It in January, at the fire station where our Cubmaster is a firefighter. However, our school's 1st grade has scheduled a field trip to a different fire station next week.

 

I was planning to still do our Go See It at ou

[Greg Nelson]

Got cut off.

 

I was planning to still do the Go See It as a den, since I thought a tour with a small group with someone you know working there would be nicer. But, some of the dads are pushing to just sign off on the Go See It and do something else in January.

 

So, should I hold my ground and i

[Greg Nelson]

???

 

In short - can my parents count a field trip as a Go See It, and free up space for another event?

[ScoutNut]

Don't you just love the stuttering!

 

Anyway - Sure why not! Yes, it is supposed to be a "Den" go see it, but if the whole Den is going on the field trip, great! A repeat visit, even to a different fire station, could be boring to the youngun's. There are lots of different things to do and see, for both achievements and electives, why repeat! Do your CM's fire house next year.

 

[zippie2223]

Yes use it.

[johndaigler]

Greg, WELCOME!!!

 

First, maybe I can help with a little poster frustration. It seems like your posts are only being partially printed. Are you aware you have some time to edit your posts? You'll see the edit icon (paper and pencil) on your own posts. Before I post, I copy everything and then if my post gets caught up like that (occasionally, but if it happens it generally happens to the same post of mine several times in a frustrating row!)then I just hit the edit icon and repaste a complete copy in edit mode. I hope that helps.

 

More importantly, your question . . . I don't think there's a reason that the feild trip CAN'T be counted, so if you'd like, go ahead and use it.

 

But, I think the question is can your trip add value that the school trip didn't contain? You and your co-leaders will have to figure that one out.

 

I guess this trip covers Go See It - 3g. Can a repeat trip to a Fire Station help you with Electives 26, 27, 28, and/or 39??

 

Have Fun!

 

jd

[fotoscout]

Sorry folks, I would say NO.

 

The Go-See-Its (as are any Den, Pack, or Troop outing) are intended to be more than an academic pursuit to complete the achievement. They are intended to be a special time for the boys to not only have fun together, but to bond as a group and to create those shared experiences that will ultimately become their memory of Scouting. They put on their uniforms and proudly make their way to the go-see-it, and when they get there, surprise surprise, the only ones in their group are Scouts!!

 

Lets look at it another way. Who are the boys going to interact with while on the trip? Surely their interaction will not be limited to only their fellow Tiger Cubs. Who will be leading the trip? I suspect strongly that you are not the teacher who will be leading the trip. AND, what about the parents? Will they all be there, remember, parents are required in Tigers because Tigers is a Parent-Child program.

 

Tiger Go-See-Its are den activities, they should be for the den and lead by the leader.

 

My suggestion is this: certainly go on the field trip. Then go to the other firehouse in January. Kids cannot get too much of a firehouse! If your parents are too narrow minded to realize that, then go to the police station, or ambulance corp., Red Cross Warehouse, or any other location that fits the achievement.

 

[Bob White]

I agree with fotoscout

[EagleInKY]

I agree with foto and Bob. This is about building relationships more than learning how a fire engine works.

[NJCubScouter]

Well, originally I was going to say that doing it as just a den trip is preferable, but "counting" the field trip would be acceptable. Fotoscout has convinced me otherwise. Too many aspects of the "Tiger experience" -- the reason for doing the trip -- would be lost if you "count" a trip done as part of a larger group. I think the most compelling factor is that on a class field trip, either none or some (but presumably not all) of the boys' "adult partners" would be present. At the Tiger level, it is supposed to be a shared experience between the adult and boy, so that among other things, they can have a meaningful discussion of their experiences later. My own experience as a parent suggests that when you ask a first-grader what he or she did on the field trip today, the response may not be particularly enlightening, and it's difficult to ask follow-up questions since you weren't there. In Tigers, you are there and can have a real conversation about it later on.

 

It's not the end of the world if a boy visits a fire station in November and another one in January, though the "boredom level" is likely to be higher the second time. Since as you say the go-see-it is to either a police or fire station, maybe try to go to a police station in January instead?

[Greg Nelson]

Original poster here - glad to see this topic has stimulated discussion.

My personal views are along the lines of the last few posters. Let me play devil's advocate here, though.

Suppose we're in an alternate universe where my den went to the fire station in Sept., but Jimmy and Johnny couldn't go. In this situation, the den isn't expected to do ANOTHER Go See It for these two kids, so they're on their own to satisfy the requirement.

If Jimmy goes on the school field trip, would that satisfy the requirement? Most of us would say yes.

For that matter, suppose Johnny's dad claims that a fire truck came by their neighborhood party, and that should count as a fire station tour. I'm making this ridiculous on purpose, but in the end, the handbook makes clear that it's not my role as den leader to challenge Akela's (the parent's) decisions. If Johnny's dad honestly thinks Johnny has fulfilled the requirement, that's the end of the story in Cub Scouts, as I understand it.

We haven't talked formally about this as a den, so the dads might be OK with going again. I just don't want to get into a situation where we schedule a Go See It, and half the kids play hooky with their dads' blessing.

[eaglewings2002]

If I recall correctly, the requirement is for a fire station OR a police station. So solve the problem - go to the police station instead.

 

I agree with the others. I see your point about parent being Akela, but the Go See It is supposed to be with the den, the book says it is supposed to be with the den, so that would be my guide. Gently tell the parents sorry, the req is to do it with the den.

 

Maybe you could talk with the fire station people and see if they could do sometrhing different than they did on the school trip. Plan a surprise. I don't think my boys would EVER get tired of going to the fire station. Do it later in the year so it is all fresh. Bottom line is, do what the req says.

 

Oh - and as far as them playing hooky with their dad's blessing. You can not control that. You can control whether they get the achievement marked off. that would be their choice then to not get it, not yours. (This message has been edited by eaglewings2002)

[Greg Nelson]

(This message has been edited by Greg Nelson)

[fotoscout]

Greg, you play a good Devils Advocate.

 

As for the parent signing off on an achievement under dubious circumstances, you have little control over that. The only one that looses is the boy. You stand to loose too much personal capital by challenging the signature. A constant drone about the importance of diligently doing the achievements wont do any harm.

 

Chronologically, youve setup a simpler scenario, and I would agree that if you did your den trip in Sept. and the school went in Nov. I would probably say yes its OK to use.

 

The difference is in the desire to see the boy complete his achievements, vs. the intentional manipulation of the go-see-it for the purpose of expedience (?).

 

[Cubmaster-Fred]

I agree with Bob and Foto that it should not count for several reasons.

 

According to page 7 of the Tiger Cub handbook: Take a Field trip, or Go See It, with the entire den.

 

Page 18: The den activities and Go See IT outings are intended to be completed with the den.

 

The point about his Adult Partner being Akela is valid except that they should only be signing off on the family activites and electives. The den Leader must verify the participation in the den activities.

 

The program is done like this because at the outings the den leader is supposed to incorperate the 10 purposes of scouting, 12 core values (character connections). This is just another reason why it should be done as a den.

 

But remember we have to be flexible and ensure the boys have fun, fun, fun!!!!!!!!

 

CMF