Program Feedback

[CubsRgr8]

Ok, all you Scoutmasters out there, I've got a question for you about how to provide program feedback. But first, a little background. For the past ten years, the pack I'm Cubmaster at fed into a troop (let's call them T1) that had the W2s crossover at the end of the school year. Sounded logical, as that schedule gave the W2s more time to earn as many activity badges as they wanted (we usually had a couple earn all 20). The pack awarded all the AOLs at the May pack meeting.

 

Last fall, my wife and I decided to move, in order to be closer to family and church. I found a troop in our soon-to-be new neighborhood for my son to join. This troop (let's call them T2) has W2s crossover in February. The Scoutmaster explained to my son in mid-February that he was welcome to participate, but wouldn't receive advancement credit until he actually joined. Given his summer birthday, that meant either earn the AOL or wait till June.

 

Now, I have to admit, as fantastic a Cubmaster and Webelos leader I am , I had noticed a waning of enthusaism in the W2s since Christmas, my own son included. But after that discussion with T2's Scoutmaster, I couldn't believe my son's response. In four weeks, he completed all the remaining requirements for his AOL (two activity badges, the oath, law, etc.). He received his AOL at the March pack meeting and you should have seen the looks on the faces :0 of the other seven W2s!. You could almost hear the gears grinding in their heads. At this month's pack meeting on Friday, I'll be awarding three more AOLs, maybe more.

 

I have been converted to early crossover and want to see T1 adopt this practive because I think it would benefit them, the boys, and the pack. However, I get the impression (accurate or not), that the leadership thinks fifth graders are too young, that they'll annoy the older scouts.

 

Scoutmasters, how would you want a Cubmaster (who you know 1. never was a scout and 2. has only slept in a tent three times in his life) to come forward with program feedback (aka constructive criticism) on how you run your troop's program? I don't want to sour the pack/troop relationship, especially since I won't be around after June.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

[Mike Long]

How about "I have this idea I want to run past you." and just tell him what happened and your thoughts. I like feedback but I don't like the "You are doing this wrong" as that is usually very abrasive. Beyond that, just talk to me.

 

In our area Webelos usually crossover in Feb./March, works for us.

 

Also if your boys are joining in June they might not be ready for summer camp. It helps to have a few weekend campouts under your belt to get comfortable with the Troop and how things are done before doing a week long camp.

[Mike Long]

Just gotta say it.

 

When I see your username I always envision Tony the Tiger and it makes me hungry.

 

Where are those Frosted Flakes?

[Weekender]

Cubsrgr8,

 

My understanding of the "rule" is a boy needs to be 11 or in sixth grade (Mike Long help me out if I got that wrong). The troop I am with is willing to accept boys year round who meet that criteria. This year we had 8 boys come to the troop from 4 different sources at different times. Granted this makes it harder to set up and manage a new boy patrol but we're working it out.

 

When to do the cross over (IMHO) is up to the pack. If the troop wants the boys they get them then as long as the boys qualify. If the troop feels they'll be too much trouble then there are always other troops.

 

Personally, I like the idea of having a few months with the new boys before summer camp. This year we are planning on disolving the new boy patrol and integrating th eboys just prior to summer camp.

 

 

[eagle90]

I also agree with the February crossover. This gives my ten new scouts an opportunity to spend four weekend campouts with the troop before summer camp. This sure helps them get acclimated to "Scout" camping over Cub camping and family camping at the KOA.

 

I would also encourage feedback from new people, especially when there are personal experiences involved as you stated. But don't come in with the "You're doing it all wrong" or the "In training they taught us" attitude. Each troop has their own nuances and ways of doing things that may be a little bit sacred to the veterans!

 

[Mike Long]

From the BSA site the rule is:

 

Boy Scouting is available to boys who are 11 through 17 years old, or who have earned the Arrow of Light Award, and have completed the fifth grade.

[Bob White]

Mike Long was the closest.

The actual requirements are:

 

Boy Scouting is available to boys who are 11 through 17 years old, or who have earned the Arrow of Light Award, or have completed the fifth grade.

 

A local unit should not be applying other joining requirements beyond those set by the BSA.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Mike Long]

Huh, then the BSA needs to proofread their website.

 

Thanks Bob.

[Bob White]

Run back and check the web-site Mike. I copied and pasted the line I posted from it. All I did was BOLD the OR.

 

Bob

[Mike Long]

Bob,

We both C&Ped off of different pages.

Go to the sign up page. You grabbed yours from the main body text. Now click the link to Boy Scouts and take a look at the copy in the red field.

 

It's a consistency issue.

[Bob White]

Right you are Mike,

There is a typo on the Web site. When all else fails I look in the Boy Scout handbook. On page 4 in the first requirement for the scout badge it lists the joining requirements as being.

 

Completed the 5th grade or is 11 years old, or has earned the Arrow of Light Award, but is under 18 years old.

 

So the completion of 5th grade is only a requirement for boys who have not earned the AOL award.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[sctmom]

What Bob quoted is also what is in the Webelos Handbook and the Boy Scout handbook.

 

One way to approach the pack and troop you are leaving is "here is what I've learned -- good and bad". Share with them that you've heard of other troops doing the early crossover and you see that it works. Point them to some other resources that could help them believe. Be sure to share with them EVERYTHING you've learned over the last few years.

 

A year ago, I never believed my son would be ready for Boy Scouts. His birthday is in July, he earned is AOL and is now a 10 year old Boy Scout. Around November things clicked and he got pumped. By January he was really chomping at the bit to crossover. Add to that he is immature for his age. It works!

 

[Mike Long]

Yep, that's it.

 

Bob, I'm not trying to argue. (although by looking back I guess it looks like I am) I know you're right about it being "or" and not "and". I just didn't look too closely at what I copied and I don't have my Scout handbook with me here at work.

 

Well, actually it's out in the car.

[Bob White]

Mike,

I never intended to imply we were arguing. I just felt that, for the topic being discussed, we needed to clarify the joining requirements.

 

I think perhaps the adults involved in the origanal post might be confused as to those requirements. There is little to be gained in retaining a cub in the pack after he has the AOL, and there is no reason for a troop to ignore the joining requirements listed in the handbooks.

 

Having been both a Cubmaster and a Scoutmaster, my feeling has always been to register the scout ASAP into whichever program he qualifies for. We started recruiting Tigers at the end of the school year (rather than Sept.) and got them to Day Camp right away. We always wanted the Webelos to crossover as soon as possible in order to get him a few weekend campouts experiences before heading to summer camp. It made a big difference by mid-week as to whether or not they got homesick. My son's current SM feels the same way.

 

Best wishes,

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Bob White]

Mike,

I never intended to imply we were arguing. I just felt, that for the topic being discussed, we needed to clarify the joining requirements.

 

I think perhaps the adults involved in the origanal post might be confused as to those requirements. There is little to be gained in retaining a cub in the pack after he has the AOL, and there is no reason for a troop to ignore the joining requirements listed in the handbooks.

 

Having been both a Cubmaster and a Scoutmaster, my feeling has always been to register the scout ASAP into whichever program he qualifies for. We started recruiting Tigers at the end of the school year (rather than Sept.) and got them to Day Camp right away. We always wanted the Webelos to crossover as soon as possible in order to get him a few weekend campouts experiences before heading to summer camp. It made a big difference by mid-week as to whether or not they got homesick. My son's current SM feels the same way.

 

Best wishes,

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)