Need Some Help

[evmori]

The DE was wrong to go to the pack leadership of #1 and ask them to share their resources (whatever those resources are) with another unit.

 

1st of all, the DE didn't ask them to share resources, only for their support. Their response was "no". Pay attention!

 

2nd, the program is the same. One BSA program, remember. The difference is the delivery of the program & that will always vary from unit to unit. But when one unit is not given a fair chance to recruit from the main source of boys as the other, that's wrong & should be dealt with. After all, we all want the boys in the program regardless of where the program is delivered.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Ed, When you say the DE asked the other pack for support what did you mean if not to share resources in some way. Did he want them to just remember the other pack in their prayers? "Support" usually means to offer manpower or money or energy, all of which are resources of the pack.

 

Now Ed, didn't you say this pack had a diminishing membership? Let's go check.

 

9/24/04 Ed worote.There was a change in leadership about 4 years ago. Membership started to wane about 3 years ago."

 

So Ed according to the Commissioners criteria for a healthy unit, how does the pack do?

 

Which measuring points are they strong in and where are they weak?

 

Just because there is one national program doesn't mean that everyone follows it.

 

If this pack did, they most likely would not be dying. Like people, healthy units do not die. Something was wrong.

 

And no Ed we don't just want boys in the program we want them in a quality program. As a commissioner I am surprised you don't know that. Are you familiar with the responsibility of a Commissioner? I know it's in the training and the guidebook, "To insure that every eligible youth has the opportunity to belong to a quality scouting program".

 

Tell us about this unfair recruiting practice again.(Ed wrote)"But when one unit is not given a fair chance to recruit from the main source of boys as the other.

 

I see...so how was it unfair(Ed wrote)"Both Packs held their sign-up night at the lone elementary school together

 

NO...both packs spoke to the same people the same night and everyone seemed to pick one over the other? Why that's outrageous. How dare the families listen to both and choose one of them. Who allowed such a micarriage of justice?

 

Ed, blaming the other unit for being better at recruiting is silly.

 

I am sure there is a troop in your area whose membership is diminishing while others increase. Are the growing troops at fault for attracting more youth, or is the diminishing troop at fault for not offering a program that attracts and retains scouts?

 

As a commissioner what do you see as the solution?

[evmori]

Ed, blaming the other unit for being better at recruiting is silly.

 

Apparently you didn't understand, Bob. The other pack has a stranglehold on the lone elementary school in the borough. Neither pack is chartered at the school. The other pack badmouths the pack in trouble to parents & kids. This is a fact. If the playing field isn't level someone will suffer.

 

What as a commissioner should be done to help save the pack? Look at the delivery of the program & see where it is lacking. Then, make sure all the leaders are trained & get everyone from the pack together & develop an action plan for reviving this pack. Then get into the lone elementary school & hold a sign-up. Do the same in the youth group of the CO church.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

"Look at the delivery of the program & see where it is lacking. Then, make sure all the leaders are trained & get everyone from the pack together & develop an action plan for reviving this pack. Then get into the lone elementary school & hold a sign-up. Do the same in the youth group of the CO church.

 

Now see Ed you knew the right answer all along. As I said before this is a program issue. Iff you can find a person who can help them understand what a good pack and den program involves and get them to follow through their problem is solved.

 

BW

 

[evmori]

Bob,

You didn't address the entire post, as usual.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

P.S. I haven't been to commissioner training nor have I read any of the material regarding being a commissioner yet. I will be doing both. The answer I gave was strictly from common sense!

[Bob White]

"The other pack badmouths the pack in trouble to parents & kids."

 

As a commissioner is it your mission to try and control what is said by all the adult in pack A, or to get pack B the assistance they need to improve their program to the boys?

 

 

[evmori]

As a commissioner is it your mission to try and control what is said by all the adult in pack A, or to get pack B the assistance they need to improve their program to the boys?

 

You ask some strange questions, Bob. I'm not gonna justify this one with an answer.

 

I suggest you go back & COMPLETELY read the original post. You might understand the situation better!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

I think perhaps you need to re read YOUR original post Ed.

 

Nowhere do you say anything about one pack bad-mouthing the other. You tell us that one pack is growing and one is dying. You say that one pack got all the new scouts and the dying pack got none.

 

You told us you were not the UC involved or the DE and I presume you are not on the committee of each pack. Later you tell us you are not trained as a UC and have not yet read the UC guidebook. So not only are you not involved in the problem you do not have the training or experience to help yet.

The solution for the pack? Let someone who understands the job and has the ability to teach and coach the leaders into following a Cub Scout program go in and help.

 

As far as the adults at the growing pack who are badmouthing the dying pack. Even if what they are saying is true they souldn't be saying it. That situation can only be dealt by counseling one person at a time. Again you would need to find someone in district service who understands the coaching/counseling skills of scouting and it could be a long process depending on how many people need to be counseled.

 

What did I miss?

[evmori]

So not only are you not involved in the problem you do not have the training or experience to help yet.

 

Ah yes but I did answer your question about what a commissioner should do correctly! Interesting. If you attribute it to luck, you would be wrong.

 

I do plan on attending training & reading the support materials. Until then, I will use the common sense God gave me.

 

What did you miss? The source of the problem. You say it's the program the one pack has. Wrong answer.

 

For you it always come back to the program. Sometimes that's not the problem. Sometimes there are other circumstances. Take into consideration the other unit telling parents "You don't want to join those other guys! They don't do anything. They yell at the kids, etc." all of which are not true. The other pack is known as the "bad pack". Doesn't sound like program problems to me. It sounds like politics and dirty politics at that.

 

And by the way, there is only on BSA program. The delivery of this program is where the difference lies.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

"You don't want to join those other guys! They don't do anything. They yell at the kids, etc." all of which are not true. The other pack is known as the "bad pack"."

 

You cannot control what the parents say, you can only counsel and coach those in scouting. Not everyone listens however. You will find that some scouters are so set in THEIR way of doing things that they will, through knee jerk reaction, reject the SCOUTING way no matter how sound the advice. So a good commissioner will focus on what can be changed by finding people in the troubled pack willing to grow and learn and coaching them back on the path. That unit's Commissioner should find them someone who knows and understands the Cub Scout program to coach them.

 

Now about what they are saying. A good commissioner would find out if it was true.

 

Oh and Ed, as a commissioner, you will find it does all come down to program. But not everyone listens.

 

But as you already pointed out you are not their commissioner.

 

I wish them well in their recovery, no one wants to see a unit collapse. But if they continue to reduce in numbers,...say to 7 or less, their chances of recovery are slim unless they have a major overhaul in key leadership.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Now about what they are saying. A good commissioner would find out if it was true.

 

Trust me. It's true. Does that make me a good commissioner?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[DeMann]

gentlemen!

 

let's stop spitting!

 

I am willing to bet that a) the committee is not active or in charge of the unit, b) the Chartering Organization is unable or unwilling to step in, c) the leaders are not trained, or else went to training not to learn but to get a patch (unless they have ignored what they have been taught), d) the leaders don't have the personality or ability to attract new parents/boys( they may be running the program in a way that is attractive only to themselves and not in an ideal fashion), e) no one on the district level is getting their hands in the mess in an active, understanding, and noninvasive way.

 

can it be fixed? sure. You could go to the principal and get a special join-night just for the weak pack, but I am willing to bet that the weak pack will not be able to retain the boys recruited. You describe a rather common problem. all Scout units will rise and fall with time. It is only because of the leadership they have- it surely is not the program. it is the people. pure and simple.

 

do you need another pack? sure you do. they all develop personalities, and each one is different and will attract different people. the average pack is around 20 boys. if you want more boys in the program, you need to give them more opportunities to join. hence, you need the other pack.

 

 

I just hope somebody will get their hands dirty with this problem before some boys fall out of Scouting and never come back. visiting here won't get the job done....

[evmori]

I am willing to bet that a) the committee is not active or in charge of the unit, b) the Chartering Organization is unable or unwilling to step in, c) the leaders are not trained, or else went to training not to learn but to get a patch (unless they have ignored what they have been taught), d) the leaders don't have the personality or ability to attract new parents/boys( they may be running the program in a way that is attractive only to themselves and not in an ideal fashion), e) no one on the district level is getting their hands in the mess in an active, understanding, and noninvasive way.

 

a)the committee is active

b)somewhat true

c)all are trained & use the training

d)not true

e)DE has stepped

 

can it be fixed? sure. You could go to the principal and get a special join-night just for the weak pack, but I am willing to bet that the weak pack will not be able to retain the boys recruited. You describe a rather common problem. all Scout units will rise and fall with time. It is only because of the leadership they have- it surely is not the program. it is the people. pure and simple.

 

The unit would be able to retain the kids they recruit if they were given an equal chance to recruit from the lone elementary school.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Ed -

Would it be better if the two packs had their recruitment events on separate nights, or both on the same night? If they do it on the same night, does one group get the better location or tables or whatever and the other one is told to set up in a dark corner? What could be done to put the two packs on an equal footing on recruitment night? How is one pack given a better opportunity than the other?

[evmori]

Would it be better if the two packs had their recruitment events on separate nights, or both on the same night?

Separate night since the same night hasn't worked.

If they do it on the same night, does one group get the better location or tables or whatever and the other one is told to set up in a dark corner?

The thriving Pack get the table right inside the door. The other pack is behind them.

What could be done to put the two packs on an equal footing on recruitment night?

Remove the politics.

How is one pack given a better opportunity than the other?

The thriving Pack has parents on the PTA while the other Pack doesn't. It's very political. The thriving Pack has been established longer & it seems they feel their toes are being stepped on by the other Pack.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10