Need Some Help

[evmori]

I was at a unit commissioner meeting last night. In one borough there are two Packs. Both draw from the only elementary school in the borough. One is thriving. The other is all but dead. The thriving Pack has parents on the PTA of the elementary school. The other, none. Our DE told us she approached the leadership of the thriving Pack & asked them to help support the other Pack and the leadership of the thriving Pack said "no".

 

A little history of the troubled Pack. It was started about 10 years ago with 5 kids and grew to around 20 kids. There was a change in leadership about 4 years ago. Membership started to wane about 3 years ago. Both Packs held their sign-up night at the lone elementary school together & what an ugly sight it was! The thriving Pack ended up with all the new Cubs! They had them in their pocket before sign-up night ever happened! The troubled Pack never had a chance. And the death started.

 

The thriving Pack has large numbers. However, they cross very few Webelos over to Boy Scouts and have minimal attendance at summer camp.

 

There are enough kids in the borough to support two Packs. BTW, both are chartered by churches. I am not the commissioner for either of these units. I was wondering what suggestions the posters on this board had for trying to save the troubled Pack.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

I'd look at the program the pack is offering. Kids will be drawn to a strong program. Strengthen the leadership, strengthen the program, and the kids will come.

[Twocubdad]

One thing you can do from the commissioner standpoint is make sure there is a level playing field at school night. In our district when two or more units recruit at one school a commissioner is assigned to emcee the program. Packs are not permitted to "campaign" for Scouts. Any displays are to be generic and promote Scouting in general, not a specific pack.

 

I'm sure someone will point out that this is a socialist approach. Maybe. That packs with better programs should be allowed to flourish. Free markets and all that, yadda, yadda, yadda. If it were purely a matter of better program, I'd agree.

 

But as a commissioner representing the district, you have an interest in seeing both pack thrive. The best thing for the struggling pack is for them to get an infusion of new Scouts, parents, and leaders. Probably a more typical situation is to substitute "new pack" for "struggling pack." The new unit doesn't yet have at Pinewood Derby track and it can bring and set up. It doesn't a dad with a laptop and projector who can show a Powerpoint slideshow of the pack's trip to the Grand Canyon.

 

Strong units have more than enough recruiting advantages through word of mouth and the individual recruiting that goes on between boys and families. Helping to direct recruiting to new and struggling units is one of the best way you can help them.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Has the troubled Pack tried to hold a sign-up night at it's church? Does the church have a school it is associated with? Are both churches the same religion? If not, the troubled Pack should try to contact boys of the same religious affiliation as their church.

 

.

 

[evmori]

Has the troubled Pack tried to hold a sign-up night at it's church?

No. Most of the members of the church don't live near the church.

Does the church have a school it is associated with?

No

Are both churches the same religion?

Yes

If not, the troubled Pack should try to contact boys of the same religious affiliation as their church.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[johndaigler]

Evmori -

 

Are there reasons why a Commissioner or anyone else at the District or Council level prefer two Packs over one larger Pack??

 

I'm not District, so I don't know. But, from a plain ol' DL's view, I wouldn't immediately see the advantage of having two separate Packs in this situation.

 

Would allowing the struggling Pack to dissolve and focusing on strengthening the "Popular" Pack be a possible solution?

 

If Kids are drawn to Pack "A", then there's something attractive about it. If it's not their Program, what is it? How can you use those aspects of the Pack to help improve the delivery of quality program?

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

[Twocubdad]

There are many good reasons for having two units instead of one. The very least of which is from the DE's perspective his job performance is based on growth in members and units (among other things). If the weaker unit drops he or she has to recruit another unit just to stay even. But as I said, that's the least of the reasons.

 

Better reasons is that two units have more potential room for adding boys. Absorbing 10 boys may not be a problem for the stronger unit now, but what happens in two years when they are bursting at the seams and don't have room for all the boys who want to be Scouts?

 

Two units increase the chances or boys and their families finding a comfortable fit. Probably the #1 issue among parents when selecting a unit from among our local packs is which night do you meet. Monday doesn't work for you? The pack down the street meets on Tuesday.

 

And how many times on this forum has someone written of a problem with their unit's leadership or program and we suggest they find another unit? That's hard to do in a one-pack town.

[johndaigler]

2CD -

 

Thanks, I was unaware that DEs were evaluated this way. Though, I'd like to find the thread where this is explained and justified . . .

 

Trying desperately to stay on the topic. All of 2CD's other points also make sense, but they seem to me to represent a luxury based on success through convenience. Not that that's a bad thing , but aren't there many, many "One Pack Towns" in the nation? I imagine most boys would have to travel a few miles to access a new Pack.

 

Evmori, Is the "Popular" pack so large it's starting to trip over itself??

 

OK, so the struggling Pack is here and it's worth saving. . .

It either needs to level the competition field by offering dynamic, well-publicised Quality Program; or it needs to stop competing and look to other sources for membership. I think other posters have offered good suggestions in those directions.

 

Or I guess, the leaderships of the two Packs need to get in a room and make a plan - - - perhaps led by a DE whose job depends on the success of the plan????. Other than Leadership ego, what reason would the PopPack have for "over recruiting"? It's a big pie, everyone benefits if we work together to preserve and enlarge it. The two Packs share the same group of boys, can't the two groups of Leaders get together and talk this through??? Aren't some of these people neighbors? Can CORs take some active role?

 

Good Luck

 

jd

 

[Bob White]

The DE was wrong to go to the pack leadership of #1 and ask them to share their resources (whatever those resources are) with another unit.

 

Supporting and helping unit#2 through this is the responsibility of the District Committtee and its resources.

 

"It was started about 10 years ago with 5 kids and grew to around 20 kids. There was a change in leadership about 4 years ago. Membership started to wane about 3 years ago."

 

This unit's problem is a weak program. This is not a reqcruitment probelem. A restaurant with bad food that can't keep customers or gain new ones does not have an advertising problem they have a kitchen problem. This pack needs to learn how to make a program "cook".

 

The best thing that you or the DE can do is find a commissioner or mentor scouter who has experience with growing and maintaining membership through the method of developing a quality program, and introduce them to the Pack Committee Chair and Cubmaster.

 

Use the resources of the community. I am sure there is someone there who has the skills to share with them.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FScouter]

The weakness on one pack has zip to do with the success of the other. Ed had given us the fact that there are enough kids in town to support two packs. If those missing kids are not in either pack, it isn't because one pack has a strong program. Agreeing with Bob, this isn't a recruitment problem. Build the program and those missing kids will come out of the woodwork.

[evmori]

This unit's problem is a weak program. This is not a recruitment problem. A restaurant with bad food that can't keep customers or gain new ones does not have an advertising problem they have a kitchen problem. This pack needs to learn how to make a program "cook".

 

And you based this opinion on what? I would agree except when the troubled Pack was doing good, they had better attendance and Pack meeting, summer camp & distinct functions than the other Pack. Plus, they had a greater number of Webelos (% wise) crossover.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White]

"I would agree except when the troubled Pack was doing good, they had better attendance and Pack meeting, summer camp & distinct functions than the other Pack.

 

An unusual way for a commissioner to measure unit quality.

[va-scouter]

evmori wrote:

"The thriving Pack has large numbers. However, they cross very few Webelos over to Boy Scouts and have minimal attendance at summer camp."

 

This part of the post shouldn't be overlooked. Looks like the "thriving" pack has a few problems too. How is the "dying" pack doing in this area? Do the kids of that pack attend summer camp? Are the few kids they have crossing over and doing well at the Boy Scout level?

 

 

[evmori]

An unusual way for a commissioner to measure unit quality.

 

How so?

[Bob White]

Because even if you haven't attended Commissioner Basic Training, I am confident with your experience that you would have studied the Unit Commissioner Guidebook and you know and use the unit health evaluation that it provides. Right?