Cub Scout Advancement Question

[LadyJay]

We have a scout in our pack who as a Wolf cub in the second grade was about a year younger then normal (he just made the school district's cutoff date). He completed The wolf requirements and earned several arrow points. Over the summer his parents decided that is was in his best interests educationally to hold him back a grade. Now he doesn't meet the age or grade requirements for joining a Bear den, but has completed the Wolf program. Where should this scout continue as a cub scout?

 

I feel like he may be bored to repeat the same requirements for Wolf, (and where would that patch go?) along with the fact that he has to make new friends with his classmates and has already formed friendships with his cubmates.

 

I have looked repeatedly for information where this has happened before and what to do, but I can't find anything. Certainly cub scouts have been held back or skipped a grade before.

 

Any ideas?

[zippie2223]

We have the same problem with one boy who is our den. I don't have any question about, let him go to bears with his buddies. I always take the age requierment as to where they start.

 

BTW Welcome pull up a sit and stay for awhile.

 

 

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[LadyJay]

What happens when his den is ready to crossover to Boy Scouts in a few years assuming he sticks to it. With the Age requirement of 10 now included in the Join Boy Scouts requirement will he be left behind while his friends join Boy Scouts?

[ScoutNut]

I too would keep him in Bears. He has already completed Wolf and you would loose him if you forced him to repeat. No fun!

 

As for Boy Scouts, as long as he earns his Arrow of Light he will be able to cross over with the rest of his group, regardless of his age. An option for his parents, if they do not feel he is ready for Boy Scouts mid 4th grade, is to keep him in Webelos for the rest of his 4th grade year. He can earn more activity pins, do some more Webelos Den camping, participate in Webelos summer camp and be ready to join the Scout Troop at the start of his 5th grade year.

 

 

 

[Twocubdad]

A couple points:

 

1) Check with your DE and/or council registrar before promising anything. If the boy's age/grade don't fit his registration, Scoutnet won't take his registrations.

 

2) Earning his AoL is no longer an automatic pass into a Boy Scout troop. The new joining rules requirement boys to be at least 10 even with an AoL. You need to run the math on his birthday.

 

3) All other things being equal, you need to let his parents decide what's best for him. Explain the rules and requirements to them and leave it up to them.

[ScoutNut]

According to the BSA National website:

 

"Boy Scouting, one of the traditional membership divisions of the BSA, is available to boys who have earned the Arrow of Light Award OR have completed the fifth grade, OR who are 11 through 17 years old."

 

Those "OR"'s mean as long as he earns his AOL he can cross over to a Boy Scout Troop. However, things can and do change. When the time comes check with your council.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

The joining requirements were discussed in a thread earlier this summer.

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=68061#id_68220

 

[acco40]

Cub Scouts ranks are not like Boy Scouts. One does not have to "earn" Wolf to become a Bear. When I was involved in CS, the program was age and grade based. If a boy does not "age" or advance in grade he does not go on the the next level, regardless of awards or previous rank earned. It is really quite simple from a rules perspective. Now, do DEs, DLs, etc. have the power to change those rules? I didn't think so but that is not my area of expertise.

 

 

[SWScouter]

Hi,

 

I have a similar situation with my den this year. My den is first year Webelos. One boy is repeating third grade instead of moving on to fourth. The last time I talked to his Mother, he was having a hard time getting used to being in a different class and misses being with his former classmates (4 years together with most of them). His Mother would like him to continue with Cub Scouts but she is concerned about him spending time with former classmates in the den making the change in school more difficult. Her son doesn't want anything to do with repeating the Bear program.

 

At this time, he is not continuing with Cub Scouts because of all this. Maybe he'll continue as a Webelos next year with the current Bear Den. I don't know.

 

I have told the boy's Mother that he is welcome in the den anytime. My current plan is to give him a couple more weeks to adjust and then talk to his parents about him continuing then. We'll see.

 

This doesn't have the age issues mentioned above. The new joining requirements are also mentioned in the Sept. Scouter magazine.

 

SWScouter

[eaglewings2002]

I would keep him with his den.

 

Here, there is a grade called T-1 (transitional first grade) for those who did K but not quite ready for 1 yet. They can join Tigers then. the next year they are in first grade, but often not quite 7. We just keep them with their den, even though their denmates are a year ahead.

 

Your boy should be close enough to the age requirement. IMO, if he met the grade req.last year, why change him now? I just don't see the point.

 

Plus, it might hurt him, and it will hurt nothing to keep him where he is.

[sm41]

Hi all,

 

My pack had this happen a 4 or 5 years ago.

 

A boy did not pass the 1st grade and was a tiger cub. His age was a little low for the grade based upon the sept 1st age cut-off.

 

He did quite well in cub scouts as a tiger. We allowed him to travel up the scouting ladder as normal, and cross over into Boy-Scouts when he was in fourth grade. The actual date on his Boy-Scout app was his 11th Birth-Day. March 15. He crossed over in Febuary.

 

He earned the AOL and is doing well in Boy Scouts right now. First one to earn his tender and Second. Well on his way to first.

 

During the Time between the Actual Cross-Over and his Ability to Join Boy-Scouts he remaind a Webelow, had no Voting rights with-in the troop, did not belong to a patrol, but the Scouts allowed him to work with them for the month it took to get him up to age.

 

YIS

 

SM41

[fotoscout]

There are a few things going on here.

 

First, recognize that Council has the ability to be flexible in situations like this and will strive to support the parents wishes.

 

Second, he is young. This year's Wolf leader will probably have a program that is different than the program that the outgoing Wolf leader put on. The kids will be different, and the parents will be different. But they will be the kids that he will now go to school with for the rest of his scholastic carrier.

 

Third, most likely he has proven to be just a little too immature for the older group of kids. Because of his age this might be the only structured activity that allows him to be with his classmates. Baseball, soccer, football.etc. will all go by his age not his grade. If your community is like mine, the age groups wont begin to come together until the boy is 10-13 years old depending on the sport.

 

I am usually very sensitive to the boys potential for being bored at den meetings if they are doing the same things for the second or third time, but in this case, because hes young, I would give serious thought to having him do the Wolf year again. Dont forget he can always become king of the arrow points.

 

At the other end of the CS scale, we had a boy who should have aged out of CS. He redid a year of school and was older than all the other boys. Council did hold up the charter until the age thing was cleared up, but it never became a problem.

 

Of course, it all depends on the parents, and the boy. Make sure that the parents look at the whole picture.

 

Good Luck

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[Torveaux]

I had the opposite problem as my son was skipped over 1st grade. He missed the chance to ever be a Tiger, but it was the right thing for him. The opportunity to be with his new classmates in the Wolf Den helped him adjust to the 'politics' of his new class.

 

I would recommend keeping him with his new class. Earning his Wolf Badge is only a fraction of the opportunities he can explore. He can earn a number of additional badges (75th anniversary, Leave No Trace, World Conservation...). He can also learn about leadership in helping his new classmates with their Wolf Achievements. I would even consider giving him a formal leadership position (such as Denner) to help keep him interested in scouting. He still gets to do things with his old 'mates at Pack meetings.

 

Good luck. There is no easy answer. The parents must be involved in the decision.

[Advancement_Lady]

We have this problem every year with new and returning scouts...

New Scouts that have been held back or failed a grade should go with his age group. Unless parents would rather him not.

Returning scouts that were held back or failed a grade should continue to move up in rank.