training den leaders

[pack330]

Does anyone know if it is okay for a pack to train a den leader in your own unit? I have been training Cub leaders for years. We have the videos and I have train the trainer cert. and woodbadge. Is that enough? I have one den leader who has never gotten trained. Too busy of a schedule.

[Eamonn]

Best thing is to check with your District or Council Training Chair.

Eamonn

[Laurie]

Eamonn gives good advice. In this council, a leader may not be trained within the unit. All training is done at the district and council level by teams of trainers.

 

An opinion of my own about this: having trainers outside the unit train unit members takes pressure off of those within the unit. It also gives a fresh perspective and helps the entire unit because each time a leader takes training, that leader brings some new idea to the unit. I've seen this happen every time one of our leaders takes parts in a training of some sort. But this is just my opinion

[Bob White]

Pack330,

When you say that you have the videos, which ones do you mean?

 

BW

[FScouter]

The position of "pack trainer" was set up so that a designated person with the appropriate credentials could train the newbies. The district training chairman certifies pack trainers. I'm surprised that the council would not permit this, considering it is part of the national program. The Cub Scout Leader book includes a discussion about the pack trainer.

[pack330]

The videos we have are den leader specific(new leader essentials) and fast start(youth protection training). We are suppost to get leaders trained within 30 days and our district doesn't do trainings for at least 60 days or more.

 

Is "pack trainer" a replacement for trainer development conference? According to the information I have its conducted at council level; intended for those leaders who want more training and leadership skills and want to be a part of their area's training team. Or is that train the trainer? O also looked up pack trainer and it seems that is okay to do at the local pack level. I can't seem to get a straight answer out of council or out DE and training chair. I'm thought is that they would preferr that all leaders get trained by the district training chairman and assistants. The problem is that I have one leader who can't make it to trainings. Isn't the attitude to be that we bring the scouting program to the boys why not the leaders too? I always participate in out district trainings as a trainer but once in a while we have situations that do happen like this one.

[Bob White]

Eamonn and FScouter were both correct. Pack trainer is designed to allow a trained individual in each pack to

A) promote leadership training

B) encourage attendance in District and council Training events

C) with proper training and approval from the district Training Chair, deliver basic training (New Leader Essentials, and Cub Job Specific Training) to all unit volunteers within the first 30 days.

 

Youth protection requires that the presenter be approved by the SE.

 

Many Councils require that the trainer have attended Trainer Development/BSA 500 in order to train.

 

Hope this helps.

Bob White

[Laurie]

I thought Pack Trainer was someone who could train at the unit level, for we too have had difficulty getting timely training for new leaders. However, from our council I learned that if I were to be Pack Trainer, I'd have to take part in the Trainer Development Conference, each of the Cub Scout Leader Specific positions, New Leader Essentials and Youth Protection Training. Then, I'd be expected to communicate the training dates to those in the unit--and that is it. No training may be done by me as a Pack Trainer. This is why it is best to check with your own council. From others on-line, I find that different councils handle this position in different ways.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[wojauwe]

 

Our council allows us to use the National online Youth protection training.We reccomend that this not be used for first time participants but for renewals.Still it's prefferable that they go through at least the online rather than none at all. http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=yp Above is the National site.The program is administrated through councils each one may have a bit different procedure so the national site lists the areas that are set up to administer program.

For youth contact position this is the foundation of their training (a must).

It is always reccomended that leaders be trained at the District level.If it is not possible because of leaders schedule it would be prefferable that some kind of training be

set up.pack,you said that you have been on the training team and have train the trainer credentials,If you could maybe coax

another district training team member to work with you,it might be more palatable to District.To make it worth while you could contact District commissioner,have him check to see if any of his unit commisioners have units with same problem.It might be easier to work out timing logistics with a small group.It would also be easier to get some district resources involved.

(It might be easier to bully the leader's boss into giving him a schedule break)

but for now make sure he's gone through fast start and YP.

You could show him the Videos,but I found them to be a bit of a joke.

When I was in Cubs I was Den Leader Coach(I think this is no longer a position)for 3 yrs.I recuited Den Leaders and insured that they were trained.More often than not they would be in position for a while before they got opportunity for training.

Our pack financed me to put together a starter box for each Den leader it included appropriate Den leader manual,copy of

youth book for that level,copies of the den management paper work(advancement forms,roll call etc.)program materials for the first few den meetings up to first roundtable.Den and american flag and stand etc.

Make sure they go to Roundtable if they can't make it I haven't missed a roundtable in 10 yrs.I'd always bring back

program information to pack.

Hope some of this is helpfull

[scoutldr]

The "Pack Trainer" position is a registered position in the Pack. In order to be "TRAINED" and wear the Trained strip, the Trainer Development Conference is required as the position specific training. According to the Cub Scout Leader book, the PT's responsibilities are to keep track of the training records, orient new parents to the Pack, conduct training for new leaders (NLE and Specific), and promote and encourage leaders to attend District and Council training such as Roundtable, University of Scouting, Wood Badge, PowWow, etc.

 

This position replaces the old Den Leader Coach position. The Council in which I serve has recently tried to mandate 100% trained leadership...they have since backed down and have stated that it is a "goal" to have every leader trained...with which I agree. But the only way I am going to be able to achieve that as a District Training Chair is through the Pack Trainer. My plan is to "deputize" them as members of the Training team, after serving an "apprenticeship" and attending TDC.

[wojauwe]

scoutldr has the same philosphy that we are coming to in my district.We've coordinated with all of our bordering Districts

so that none of our trainng overlaps and we advertise all dates to all of those districts.We also support training efforts within units.

I was appalled last week at District commitee meeting when I saw the numbers of trained leaders we had in District.What was worse was these numbers were in line with qualiy district requirements. We need to do what ever we can to improve this.

Glad to hear there is a position that replaces Den Ldr.Coach .

I wasn't familiar with position,been a while since I was a cub ldr.

 

[ScoutNut]

Pack330 - As Cubmaster of a Pack with volunteer problems you should not be too eager to take on yet another committee position.

 

Have your Committee Chair direct your untrained leaders to the online Fast Start (new presentation, very nice) and Youth Protection (must be accessed thru your council website as it is area specific for local laws).

 

Do not take on the added position of Pack Trainer. You are already reaching burn-out!

 

 

[Eamonn]

Our Council has four Districts, all the Districts present Cub Scout training's at least twice a year most offer Cub Scout training's three times a year. Some of the training is offered on a week day night some are on a Saturday. During my term as Council Training Chair. Which ended last year, if there was someone who couldn't make any of these dates we would send someone from the training team to work one on one or with a small group to do the training.

Just as having a unit commissioner servicing his or her own unit doesn't work. I feel the same way about training.While I'm sure that pack 330 does everything really well. It could be that somehow, someway the pack has picked up a few nasty habits or is doing something that is not right. Having someone from the pack pass on these bad habits or presenting something that is not right as training is I'm sure you can see not a good thing to do.

You would be surprised how many units /packs do stuff that is not right. Or they people with strong ideas that they in their heart of hearts believe to be right but sad to say is not so.

It also helps to allow someone with "Fresh Eyes" to do the training. If they are good trainers they will cover all the material in the syllabus. I think that if the training was presented "In House" there might be a temptation to skip some of the material, either because "We don't do that!" Or the "You already know that!" will come into play.

The other thing that can happen is that once you start doing training in the pack it is going to be very hard to get other leaders to attend the District training's. Again the feeling would be why should we go anywhere else when we can do it here.

Eamonn

[pack330]

The problem is that we can't get anyone to attend our district roundtables or activities. We live in a small town where no one will leave. Not even to shop. Our stores sell out of everything. It's crazy. We have children/adults who have never left their own state. It's very strange? I think you have a very good point but a lot of people in this area don't like the way roundtables are run in our district. Any excuse not to attend. Sad but true. ScoutNut, I hear you. I'm trying to be good:)

[scoutldr]

Eammon, your concerns are all well taken. However, I have seen the same thing happen at District training courses by Scouters who were so old and so entrenched that no one bothered to check on what they were presenting. We have trainers in different districts who've been doing it for 25+ years. What they remember about running a Tiger Cub den meeting, I don't know. Personally, I'm not involved in the Cub program on a daily basis, so I can't keep up with the program changes. That's why I'm looking to enlist Pack Trainers with more recent experience.

 

The reality is, National disagrees with you, and the Pack Trainer position is here, at least for now. Their job description, published in the Cub Leader Manual, says they are to conduct training in their units. The smart District Training Chair and Unit Commissioner would make it a point to "audit" the training being conducted to ensure Quality. How about a "Pack Trainer of the Year" award at the District Dinner?