leaders who don't want to help.

[pack330]

I'm having problem with my committee and den leaders. I can't get them to do anything. They leave it all for me to do. I just had to cancel my position in our town's annual parade because I couldn't get anyone to walk the parade with the boys. I am 9 months pregnant and can't walk and was unable to attend Cub Scout overnight camp this year. I got one person (CC) to attend with the boys and had to find other packs to share the site with us for leadership. Everyone acts like attending pack activities is a big waste of their time. We plan out these things so the boys can enjoy themselves/earn some electives/etc. but the parents and den leaders don't want to be bothered. I as the CM get treated as if I am overly too excited about Scouting but isn't the CM suppost to be a cheerleader? What will happen to our pack when I step down. I already have one son in Boy Scouts and one other who is a Webelos I. I am also having a third boy in September(baby # 4). My plan was to step down into the CC position after my son leaves the pack. I am also involved with my sons Boy Scout Troop and one of the membership chairs for my council. I have no problem getting my parents to come to pack meetings/activites but no one wants to come on the committee to help out. If I can a parent to ask them to make something/etc. they always say yes and give 100%. My CC and myself let these parents know what time commitment we are looking for. I don't believe in lying to my parents just to get them on board. What can I do? I'm just about ready to help my son get his Webelos 1 & 2 done so he can cross over at 10 1/2. We have worked so hard to build a good program but everyone wants someone else to do the work. Any ideas? HELP!

[FScouter]

I'm having problem with my committee and den leaders.

 

I have no problem getting my parents to come to pack meetings/activites but no one wants to come on the committee to help out.

 

My CC and myself

 

I don't believe in lying to my parents

 

Listen to yourself. MY committee. MY den leaders. MY parents. MY committee chair. Maybe these people view you as a one-man-band. They need to feel like they are part of the team instead of somebodys underling. Do you want them to help you, or help the pack?

 

Just a thought. No offense intended.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

If the folks in your pack act as if Scouting is a big waste of time, perhaps that's what they think it is.

 

If leaders that have volunteered don't want to do their jobs, they should be counseled and replaced if necessary. If you can't find volunteers, maybe it is time that the pack fold its tents for the last time.

 

This whole thing is supposed to be fun. That's fun for all involved, both youth and adult. If it has stopped being fun for you and it sounds like it has then maybe it is time for you step down and step away.

 

Packs come and packs go. It is sad and frustrating to watch an organization that you've poured your life into for a number of years.

 

I don't have any data to back up my thoughts but it seems that Cub Scout Packs come and go much more quickly than Boy Scout Troops. It seems that a few enthusiastic parents get together and start a Pack. The pack runs well until the founders leave. Things continue on for a few more years and then nearly everyone who cares has moved on.

 

Ask your son if he'd mind moving to a new pack. Maybe a move would be a good thing for all involved.

[johndaigler]

FScouter, tough to make that comment, but you did it kindly and well!

 

Pack330, if FScouter is off the mark, what else could the issue be? You talked about the problem's end-result symptoms. Think about the causes. Why is your team not there to help? Aren't they used to helping? Is this a newish problem or has it always been this way? You've been doing this for a while, what's different lately to cause this new issue? Your parents help but not your

[Twocubdad]

How are your events planned? Are they planned by the committee? Do the other leaders have a chance to provide their input? Why aren't they buying into the program? What can you do to bring them on board?

 

How are you recruiting leaders? Are you generally asking for help or are you going to selected individuals with a specific job (and job description) and asking them to fill a specific need?

 

Take a look at the thread called "Discouraged!" which is currently active. There is some good advice there for how to select and recruit volunteers. There is a BSA publication which outlines the process you can ask your DE or scout shop for. The Cub Scout Leader Book outlines the annual planning process and Program Helps includes calendars and forms to help with the plan (as well as a pre-planned year of activities, if you choose to use it.)

 

The line in your post that stands out to me is where you say you have no problem attracting parents to meetings and activities -- that's half the battle. I think if you try some of these proven methods you have a better chance of getting folks interested and active.

[Eamonn]

One of the big problems that I used to have was that I used to judge other peoples commitment to the program using me as the yardstick.

There I was rushing around attending meetings, planning meetings,doing all this stuff and not understanding why everyone in the entire world wasn't tagging along.

During my time as a Cubmaster I can now look back ans see that I was very fortunate that the pack had a really outstanding Den Leader Coach. She was every bit as into "It" as I was. Sad to say looking back not all the Den Leaders were. In fact many would loved to have chucked it all in but as is often the case didn't because there was no one to take their place. They kept on out of loyalty to the Cub Scouts and my ego likes to think loyalty to me.

While I hate to admit it one year the Webelos Scout Den Leader was so half hearted that I stepped in and took over, leaving her name on the charter. Leading a Den is tough. You know that each and every week that come hell or high water them little fellows are going to be on your doorstep add to that the Leaders meetings and the Cubmaster on your back to get your tail to Roundtable meetings, training's and whatever else comes down the pike. A Den Leaders lot is not a happy one.

I think the answer to the problem is two fold.

One is planning. You need to sit down about now and make an annual plan. The plan must come from all the adults. It could be that maybe you are all just trying to do too much. Maybe the activities are the same old same old.

Our District has a Mall Show every year in February. Every year it is the same thing. Every year I find an excuse to arrive late or if things really work out well I find a reason not to attend. Yes I know I'm supposed to be setting the example, but I think a trip to the dentist beats going to this darn Mall Show.

The other part of the answer is communications.

For communications to really work there has to be feedback. As Cubmaster maybe you need to stop cheer leading and start listening. Hear what the other Leaders are saying and from there do what can be done to meet their needs. Trying to get people to do stuff when school is out is always hard and not marching in a parade is not going to be the end of Scouting as we know it.

I also think that as Cubmaster you need to do everything that you can to recognize the Den Leaders. Make sure that they get each and every knot or medal that they qualify for. Go wild and treat them to some little gift. Thank you cards after an event for a job well done. Whatever happens don't let them see what you have posted here. These are very special people, they are delivering the program to the boys, they are worth their weight in gold.

You make no mention of an Assistant Cubmaster?

One extra job you might want to take on is grooming him or her to take your place. Maybe not right away but it ought to be a goal that you set.

Try to make Scouting as much fun for the adults as it is for the boys. The boys do come first but without the adults there is no program.

Eamonn

[evmori]

Yours mine ours. What's the difference! I see nothing wrong with using the term I.

 

If you have registered leaders who won't do their job get rid of them & find ones who will!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[CubsRgr8]

I say step down now, concentrate on your family, and let events take their course. You're just about to become a brand new mom again and saving the pack cannot be your responsibility. It's time to summon the committee chair, charter organization representative, unit commissioner, and district executive to a "the pack is going to fold if you don't show up NOW" meeting. Announce your immediate resignation and let them earn their keep, so to speak. Just my opinion. Good Luck!

[ScoutNut]

"I just had to cancel my position in our town's annual parade because I couldn't get anyone to walk the parade with the boys."

 

Why on earth would you do that! Where were these boys parents?? Cub Scouting is a family program, not a drop off babysitting service. I just sent in the forms for parade spots for both my Cub Pack and my Girl Scout Service Unit (like BSA district). I can not be in 2 places at once. The CS Den & GS Troop Leaders will all get their spot numbers. After that it will be up to them to let their scouts know and to coordinate who will show up to march. Each Cub who shows up should have a parent or another adult with them that they will be marching with. I stress with the leaders - if there are no adults there will be no scouts marching, try again next year!

 

"I am 9 months pregnant and can't walk and was unable to attend Cub Scout overnight camp this year. I got one person (CC) to attend with the boys and had to find other packs to share the site with us for leadership."

 

Once again, where were the parents? Were any of the leaders boys there? If so then the leader should have been too. Again, no drop offs! If there is no one to run or provide leadership for an event then cancel it. Let everyone know up front that this is the way it is. When the boys start complaining about canceled events maybe their parents will wake up.

 

You can't do it all - and you should not be trying to.

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Sometimes you have to sit down and have a heart-to-heart with your parents. It's not easy. And, with Cub Scouts, it's even more difficult. Often, the parent's have not fully "bought into" the scouting idea. By the time they get to Boy Scouts, they often have.

 

I had a situation earlier this year. My right-hand guy left the troop (his son dropped out). The new crop of Webelos crossed over and two new ASMs came in. I expected everything to continue wonderfully. After all, two to replace one, right? Well, it didn't turn out that way. I couldn't depend on the new leaders for anything. Their work schedule and personal conflicts were constantly messing things up. I don't think either one showed up for the first 3 or 4 troop meetings.

 

When I finally had had enough, I held an unannounced parent's meeting at a court of honor. The boys weren't in the room. I told them that I was approaching burnout, and I couldn't keep it up. Therefore, I was asking each of them to do their part. In particular, I was not going to do committee work any more. If someone asked me something that sounded like a committee member's responsibility, I would tell them to talk to the CC. If someone asked me something that sounded like a youth responsibility, I would refer them to the appropriate Junior Leader. I told them that, if I didn't get any help from the ASMs, I was going to have to be solely focused on the boys, and it would be up to them to make sure the other aspects of the troop continued to run.

 

I've been pleased with the turnaround. The committee takes their responsibilities much more seriously and don't involve me unless they really need my input. And the ASMs are trying to give more time, at least when they can. And I have another adult that is probably going to become an ASM next year. He's getting very involved and is proving to be a big help.

 

These parent's meetings don't always work. But if you're humble and honest, and sell them on the reason and need, it may work for you.

[Laurie]

The CM role should be fun and compared to others, fairly easy. Having helped two dens so far, and helping another to find its feet right now as it begins a new year, I have tremendous respect and even admiration for our den leaders. I often call them mine, but I mean no harm in it. What I do is to serve them in any way I can. A call to see how things are going, thank yous and praise as often as possible (and they give many reasons for both), asking how they are and meaning it. Not a "how are you" as I walk away and they'd answer my back--we've all received that one. I think that encouraging den leaders is a huge part of the CM role, and that naturally leads to working as a team in pulling together a pack meeting. Den leadership is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. That is where the leader-Cub relationships are built, where most of the fun and interaction takes place.

 

Committees have the most "unfun" job and though it can be challenging, I tend to think it shouldn't be. My reason is simple: I was asked by the CC to cover for him for awhile. I served actively as CC, CM, helped one den out, plus had my own son to think of in the pack, an older son and his activities in Scouts, and a family--but not necessarily in that order The paperwork that needs to be filled out is simple--important, but nothing tricky. The advancement orders can take up time, but again, it's fairly simple so long as the person doing it doensn't mind paperwork. Planning a budget, a calendar, a program year--none are difficult to work up. I've done these when no one else would. I did them ONCE.

 

Now, this past year we had ups and downs. Thankfully, for the boys, it was all ups. For the adults, it was learning our roles and how to best serve the youth. Training, adding new leaders, planning ahead and avoiding spur of the moment stuff--things of that nature. Very quickly I earned either the pack leadership's respect or they found me to be easy to pass things off to. I became overwhelmed. I quietly, calmly, and clearly listed the many items that had fallen to me in a few short months at a committee meeting. I expressed my concern that (1) I couldn't keep up this pace, (2) shouldn't keep up this pace as I was not doing any one role well, and (3) that we had too many capable people to simply rely on one. One person who had done nothing for months immediately took on a couple items--a committee member taking on committee work. Word traveled to those not at the meeting, and a den leader whose den had bridged became active again on the committee and took on two key roles: fundraising and the calendar. Den leaders each volunteered to take on one activity to plan out. We all have plenty to do, for the pack is active, and there are many different dens to serve.

 

I would encourage you to share your concerns. You should not and can not do it all. You might try, you might even succeed, but that is not what the role of CM is about, nor is the role of any one Cub Scouter. There will always be families who won't be involved, but sadly, we can't change that and we know their sons may miss out. What we can do is the best as a team that we are able to do, and anything that stretches us too thin--well, we drop it unless someone takes up that item.

[pack330]

You all have given me a lot to think about. My husband agrees that I allow people to take advance of me. I have allowed my committee and den leaders to walk all over me. In the past I have asked people to help out and when they didn't I did the job for them. My current plan is to put up posters with positions that need to be filled. If the activities positions/committee positions don't get filled in we don't do that activity. My committee chairperson doesn't want to do the job but won't step down. I get very little support from her and I land up running the committee meetings for her. I don't know how to ask her to step down. She has been trained but still doesn't have a clue on how to do her job. I have seen how a real committee runs and we aren't doing it. Is it best that I step down, I'm not sure. We have a sign up night coming up for all the current Cub Scout families and I'm thinking that having a parent's meeting with our charter rep. maybe the best way to get some help. If I'm not there, the CR and committee can talk to the group of parents/leaders/committee to say step up or we are going to lose our CM. Also let them know that I will be stepping down after my son completes Webelos. I have found that if other people ask a parent to do something like being on the committee then I'm not the one to avoid. Keep the ideas coming.

[scoutldr]

It sounds like you all need a refresher in role delineation. The CM does not hire and fire the CC or committee members. The COR does. The CM's job is to 1) Emcee the pack meetings and 2) Recruit and mentor the corps of Den Leaders, making sure that the Dens are doing their thing. These CM and CC are two distinct roles. Committee work should not done by the CM and DLs (unless they are dual registered).

[Laurie]

scoutldr, I agree with you completely. We have a problem getting committee members though, and to complicate that, den leaders want to do committee work as well as den leadership. I am very much against that. What I would like to see happen, and I do believe it's possible, is for the den leaders to communicate what they want (I get a "wish list" from them regularly to pass on to the committee) and need, but to focus on the dens. I'd like to see the committee members carry out the business that needs to be covered so it lightens the load of the den leaders. You know what I think happens? The leaders make their own roles entirely too difficult.

[FScouter]

"... den leaders want to do committee work as well as den leadership. I am very much against that."

 

BSA is against that too. One may not register as both a den leader and a committee member.