Questions about Wolf and summer

[Bob White]

I too understand what EagleinKY is saying Twocub I still see it as being incorrect.

 

Look at it as if you had 6 kids in your famoily and you say that reather then celebrate their birthdays as they come up you have decided to do one birthday party in June for all of them, regardless of when their birthday was.

 

What kid wants that. They want to celebrate their birthday ON their birthday. They want and need immediate recognition.

 

They fact that you want to do one big advancement ceremony does not change the fact that they want and need immediate recognition when the award is earned.

[Balding Eagle]

Thanks for all of your replies. The boys will receive their bobcat badges at the June pack meeting.

 

As far as working on the Wolf badge, my intention was to have them work on it, not complete it. I am planning of giving a little pep talk at the last Den meeting and mention some of things they could do over the summer including belt loops and pack activities.

 

My goal is retention. I want to keep t

[Twocubdad]

But, Bob, if you told your kids that on their actual birthday they would only get a small cake and a card so that come June you could all go to Disney World (or Philmont as the case may be) for their big birthday celebration, I think most would go for it.

 

And I said that I understood Eagle's position, not that I agreed with him. While immediate recognition is important, recognize that many units have elaborate advancement ceremonies that are an important and memorable part of the packs' traditions. Performing these big "production numbers" on a monthly basis would diminish their value (and not to mention be a lot of work of the leaders). There is a line at which you can balance the needs of the individual and the unit. Our AoL ceremony is as close to that line as I'm willing to walk. If a Scout somehow earned his AoL considerably earlier than the January-February time frame, I would make some arrangement for him to be recognized at the time he earned it.

 

The Boy Scout model is a good example. Boys are recognized immediately for their advancement, again a week later when they receive their badge and yet again weeks or maybe months later at a formal Court of Honor.

[Bob White]

"Performing these big "production numbers" on a monthly basis would diminish their value

 

Actually Twocubdad, in Cub Scouting we call those "production numbers" by another name... The Pack Meeting Program.

 

They do no diminish the value of anything, they enhance the program, and they are a basic element of every pack meeting.

[acco40]

I agree with BW on when to award. Also, Cub Scouts is a family program so it is not the den leaders call on how much advance the boys (and their families) work on their badges in the summer.

 

The only drawback, and a good leader can remedy the situation, is that when a advancement topic is covered during a meeting later in the year the constant cries of "I already did that" can be heard from some.

[Twocubdad]

Strange thing, Acco, is that I'm agreeing with Bob, too.

 

Bob, I notice that you replied to my post pretty quickly. Maybe if you take a little more time to read and understand what others are saying you won't be so quick to post these snide, condescending replies. I feel sure you don't intend to come off as rudely as you do.

[Laurie]

Tiger Dad, with your attitude and obvious concern for keeping things going and keeping the boys interested, you should have a great summer. Good for you for keeping them going in some way over the summer!

[fotoscout]

And how would you Remedy the situation. Let me count the ways

 

1. Have little Johnny assist with the meeting, all the while saying Im bored, I already did this.

2. Have little Johnny assist with the meeting, all the while sapping some of the adventure from the activity by constantly talking about whats coming next.

3. Have little Johnny do the achievement a second time, while he simultaneously disrupts the meeting.

4. Have little Johnny play quietly in a corner of the room, feeling like hes being punished.

5. Have little Johnny go home.

 

These are just the first few thoughts that came to mind, and Im only talking about one achievement at one meeting.

 

None of us have the time to plan for a whole diversionary program to keep little Johnny busy all year if he insists on completing his achievements during the summer. Little Johnny shouldnt become a special case because he (or his Mommy) want the badge in September.

 

One of the greatest responsibilities that we have as leaders is to PLAN a yearly program where the boys share in the Cub Scout experience. Allowing the boys to randomly and freely complete all their achievements at will, removes any vestige of an organized year long program. Why have a den if your goal isnt to conduct the program. The boys can gather anywhere to say the Pledge of Allegiance, and do crafts. Its the focus on the Cub Scout program that makes it a Den.

 

[Bob White]

TwoCubDad, Sorry if they came off snide or condescending, they are not intended that way. I reply quickly because I am often pressed for time or because they are questions I have answered frequently and do not require a lot of research to answer correctly.

 

I realize that sometimes my answers come off like a splash of cold water on a sleepy face. that part is intentional. Subtlety takes time and body language. This is a bulletin board, and being direct is the best use of everyone's time and Terry's bandwidth. While I will plead guilty to occasional saracasm, I never intend to be snide or condescending.

[Twocubdad]

Fair enough, Bob. Thank you.

[EagleInKY]

foto-

 

Your point highlights the importance of putting a plan together in advance and communicating with the parents. We would put together a plan for what we were going to do each month. In so doing, we also put together a list of achievements/activity pins, that we were not planning on working on in the den setting. We published that at the beginning of the year (beginning of summer would have been even better). That way, the parents at least know, and there is less chance of duplicating work.

 

2CD -

 

You understood our dilemna correctly. We tried to balance instant recognition (in the den and with beads at the pack meeting) with the desire for a "big production" in the spring. I do not believe the "wait time" was ever more than 6-8 weeks. I'm sure there could have been more concern if the gap was wider.

 

Interesting you mentioned AOL. The one exception I referred to was for AOL. The boy wrapped up his AOL in December. We always put together a nice AOL ceremony at the Blue & Gold. Mom didn't want to wait, because her son was "more mature than the others". I heard the other day that mom has started on her Eagle project for the 13 year old. (was that sarcastic?)

 

BW -

 

Your response to 2CD was one of the nicest you've ever made. You should try it more often. Honestly, I do respect your opinions, it's your approach that rubs me the wrong way.

[Bob White]

It is unfortunate you feel that way EagleinKY.

I think if you took a few minutes and reviewed my posts for anytime period or thread in the past, you will see otherwise. The vast majority of my posts are helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, cheerful and sometimes even downright cuddly.

 

There are some consistent exceptions. When others have decided to attack me personally rather than the topic. When some posters habitually ignore common and known methods or policies of the BSA. When scouters choose to condemn the program but refuse to leave it. Or non-members rather than try to learn answers make them up and call them truths.

 

Perhaps my enthusiasm isn't always palatable to everyone, but it is always in support of the program and always with the best interest of the scouts in mind, not what is best in my opinion or what makes my job easiest.

 

 

[kjamma4]

[Allowing the boys to randomly and freely complete all their achievements at will, removes any vestige of an organized year long program.]

 

Yeah, what's up with those darn kids? Don't they know that they should wait for us to teach them to goose-step and give the straight armed salute?

 

Seriously, I have more problems with kids not completing those items that we will not have time to do at the regular den meetings. I continually tell them (and their parents) that we will not do everything required to earn their badge at the den meetings. At the end of the year, I invariably hear complaints as to why their kids haven't completed all the requirements.

[Herms]

If the kids (and parents) want to spend the summer on Scout activities (instead of getting into trouble or staring at the idiot box) LET THEM HAVE AT IT!

[fotoscout]

kjamma4,

 

That's why it's important to plan out the year. No surprises, and no unknowns as the year comes to a close. The parents of my boys understand VERY clearly that we will not be doing all of the achievements in the den meetings.

 

If the parent stubbornly refuses to work with the boy to complete his achievements there is not much you can do other than to give that boy some special attention when you have the time.

 

Herms - yep that's fine by me! But don't tell me that your kid is bored stiff with Cub Scouts because he's done it all already, and not interested in the meetings. If you choose to let them run free during the summer you run the risk of creating a very difficult year for yourself. Channel them, direct them in a way that will allow all the boys to be engaged with your program.