laser tag

[Proud Eagle]

What if a council actually did issue a tour permit for laser tag? I know the prevailing wisdom is that they won't, but what if they did? Particularly what if they issued one to a unit where no one had figured out that a rule that addresses firearms also covers laser tag?

[SR540Beaver]

Dozer,

 

BSA does not say a boy can't play laser tag. They can do it all day long and thumb their nose at the BSA. What the BSA says is that a BSA troop can not play laser tag as a unit or patrol activity. My son and I play occasionally and have a blast. We might even take one of his buddies from his patrol along. But it is a private activity, not one that our troop planned.

[Bob White]

and that would be fine. The nose thumbing, of course, is not mandatory.

[NeilLup]

Hello Dozer,

 

You can be as annoyed as you wish, but facts are facts. In today's society, if the BSA is not scrupulously careful (and likely even if it is) it gets sued and sometimes loses. And that can be very expensive. Check out the Stella awards if you want to see how amazing lawsuits can get.

 

If you wish personally, you can get as far out on a limb as you choose. But the BSA really does not have that alternative; the risk/benefit ratio is too unfavorable.

[SR540Beaver]

BW,

 

The nose thumbing could be a Scout Spirit topic during a Scoutmaster Conference.

[Bob White]

Dozer writes "So a group of boys want to play laser TAG, they shouldn't because BSA says it's detrimental to their mental health."

 

An interesting claim, although totally baseless. Nowhere has the BSA made that claim.

 

He continues,"They'll teach you how to shoot rifles and shotguns,"

 

True, but NOT at each other.

 

Then this age old philosophy,"Knock it off, boys learn from experiencing their mistakes."

 

True again, BUT NOT in matters of safety when in the BSA. To allow that to happen would be very irresponsible leadership.

 

And who is to blame? Here are the culprits according to Dozer. "OSHA, insurance companies, and parent lawyers, have stifled a once exciting program."

 

OSHA is an agency that enforces governmental regulations designed to protect employees. It has NOTHING to do with the scouting program or its operation. What has stifled scouting are leaders who do not deliver the program correctly.

 

Another forcast for the future includes,"We'll teach you CPR but don't use it the victim could die and you could be sued for trying to save them.

 

Perhaps Dozer is also also unaware of the "Good Samaritan Act" which protects the person administering emergency aid as long as they stay within the boundaries of their training and abilities. So the situation he suggests is highly exaggerated and protected by the laws of the land.

 

Mr White loosen up, did you write G2SS or what?"

 

Mr Dozer, wake up. You have volunteered to be an adult leader in the BSA. That charge comes with certain responsibilities. Not the least of which is obeying the policies of the BSA as you agreed to when you registered.

 

And No, I did not write the G2SS. Is it your opinion that in order to understand the rules one needs to have written them?

Or, that if someone cannot comprehend the purpose of a rule, the fault automatically resides with the book rather than with the reader?

 

Bob White

 

 

 

[evmori]

I gotta agree that banning laser tag seems a little over the edge. But we need to follow the rules. It would be nice if the BSA gave us a better explanation to their reasoning, though.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dozer]

Okay okay, I give, sorry for the rant. I was listening to T Kennedy tear down our troops on FOX while I was responding.

I have read G2SS, and it seems they have taken logic to excess, but I will and do adhere to it. As far as the OSHA thing, when you get to the climbing part, the similarity between OSHA regs. and G2SS are unmistakable.

Bob White, my appology sir. I didn't mean to single anyone out. I'm just afraid, that if this continues, we won't be allowed to tent when it's below 40 degrees outside.

[Bob White]

Apology accepted and appreciated Dozer. Do not let the fear mongers get to you. The volunteers and professionals who determine BSA policies are mostly experienced leaders and parents. Their concern is for the quality of the program, the quality of the activities and adventures of the scouts and the safety of other peoples children who are entrusted to our care.

 

If camping below 40 degrees is ever banned it will be due to abuses in camping methods and training by volunteer unit leaders not by a random decision of lawyers or insurance companies.

[dozer]

But the way the pamphlet reads, it's like a secretary was taking notes, while the insurance company was dictating what they would, and would not cover.

If you follow it to the letter, a scout can't hang streamers, with a step ladder for your red and white, without a climbing instructor? This is excessive, and it's my interpretation, not gospel.

[Bob White]

Still straddling the fence Dozer?

 

No part of the G2SS is about what injuries will be covered by insurance.

 

The G2SS is telling you two things.

 

First it is a manual of "best practices". Those items printed in regular type that help you understand the safest way the BSA has found to participate in an activity while avoiding or maintaining a low rate of serious injury.

 

Secondly, it is a record of BSA Policies regarding safety. These are printed in Bold Type. The are procedural mandates that if ignored will endanger your membership and/or your liability umbrella protection which is provided through the BSA and paid for with your annnual registration fee.

 

AT NO TIME is the scouts accident protection at risk.

 

Your biggest problem Dozer is not how the rules are written, but your miscomprehension of why they were written and what they affect within the unit's program and the BSA.

 

 

[dsteele]

I've never played laser tag. Lasers were a thing of the future when I was a Scout. What I don't understand is why the rule is such a controversial one? I accept it and move on. It's easy enough to think of other activities for Scouts to do -- like going camping.

 

Do individuals have to sign waivers before they can play? That's an honest question. I'd like to know. If they do, this thing may be tied to insurance after all.

 

Unc.

[scoutldr]

To be honest, I have never played laser tag, but the "weapon" is probably no more powerful than a laser pointer which you can buy at any Office Max...no danger unless you hold it right in your eye for an extended period of time. More likely the gadgets use an infrared beam much like your TV remote. No hazard there. So why is it forbidden in the G2SS, I don't have a clue. Now paintball, I can see. Them suckers HURT!

 

Scouting, to quote someone famous, is "a game with a purpose". What does laser tag teach someone? How to hunt and kill humans during simulated combat? What with sports, school and other things, there are precious few hours available to us for Scouting...why not spend them teaching/learning something useful? They can do laser tag the other 6 days of the week.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)