"problem" scout?

[eaglewings2002]

I have a boy in my Webelos (1) den that is proving to be quite a problem. He has been in the den since Wolf and has always been a discipline challenge, but lately he has been unacceptable. He has been cursing, he hits and tells the other boys he is going to kick their (expletive deleted). He has not been coming to meetings much lately, and when he is not there the meetings go much smoother. But when he is there, and on this campout, he refuses to do the activities as well. In the past I have not made him do the activities but had him sit on the bench and watch. He very xlearly does NOT want to be there and I don't know what to do with him. The other parents, including myself, do not want their bioys associtaing with him because of his behavior. His mom and stepdad don;t seem to care about this. When told they will yell at him but that is it.

 

One problem is that the Cunmaster, whose son is in the den as well, is good friends with the parents. he has asked me to inform him of problems with this boy, but when I do, he doesn't do anything. On the campout he punched another boy and the Cm said the other boys should not tattle! Because of the CM's interest I can not ban this boy. Also the CM is determined that this boy will get his AOL this year (he is a year older than the others). He wants me to sign off on things that were not done or not done as written, and told me if I won't HE will. How would you suggest I handle this (I guess it really TWO problems!)? Thanks.

[EagleInKY]

I always hesitate to be the first to weigh in on an issue like this. But we've seen it posted here time and time again.

 

First, you do not have to put up with behavior such as this. Cussing, fighting and other abusive behavior are not part of the values of Scouting. The boy can be removed from the Pack. If the CM doesn't support you on this, you should go to the Pack Committee. If it's non-existant, try the CO. If all else fails, you might have to get all the parents in your den together to march up to the CM and demand that he makes the move.

 

The Cubmaster doesn't have the right to sign off on this boy's advancement. If he tries, he is falsifying the advancement reports. I would take it up with your DE or District Advancement Chair. As you will hear time and time again, as leaders we have no right to add or take away from the advancement requirements. If he hasn't met them, NO ONE can change that.

[John-in-KC]

I hope there is another involved parent in your Den. Two deep leadership includes a different set of eyes on the young man in question.

 

I will assume he/she concurs with your assessment of the situation.

 

I'd start this not by jumping to the CM or the Committee, but rather with the parents concerned. Neutral ground. Obviously this is a confrontation, but try for a businesslike meeting. There may be problems you don't know about, which show themselves in how the boy behaves. Asking for their help may be all you need to solve the problem. Then again, the boy may be following a "nit-wit" of a parent's example.

 

If the parents are not willing to accept your version of meetings (remember "two deep?" Two eyes and two mouths saying the same thing helps confirm the problem), then it's time to discuss, again "two deep", with the Cubmaster. Find out his spin on things. HE MAY WELL BE SERVING AS AKELA for this young man.

 

If the CM is doing "social promotion," he's doing a dis-service to whoever will take the boy into Scouting. The two of you remind him of that.

 

I guess what I'm saying is find the missing information for this. A little time finding out the circumstances of the boy may help him, you, and your Den.

 

Last point: If you encounter a potential Youth Protection problem, stop research at once and get in touch with your professional!

 

YIS John

[fotoscout]

First question, whose den is it, Yours or the CMs?

 

Next question, where does it say that you have to put up with that type of behavior? Where does it say that you have to subject your scouts to assault, be it physical or verbal?

 

I am sure your know the answers. You cannot knowingly put your boys in harms way. Reschedule your den meetings without telling the problem childs parents where they are being held until the situation is remedied. Let the CM create a Den of 2 for his son and the private case.

 

 

 

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Foto has the right idea. A Cub Scout uses profanity or hits another kid, he goes home. No discussion. No okay from the Cubmaster or committee. Separate the boy from the den, call the parents and tell them to come get him. It is not your job to deal with the boy's discipline problems, it's his parent's responsibility. If this were the first instance, I would tell him and his parents that he is welcome to come back to the next meeting as long as he is able to behave himself as a Scout. But since he is already on strike two (or better) I would add that he is welcome back only if he and his parents can convince you that he sincerely wants to do better. If not, he needs to find another den.

 

The Cubmaster needs to lead, follow or get out of the way, and I would tell him exactly that. He can either support you or replace you. As a Cubmaster and former Commmittee chairman, I am all about taking care of my den leaders, especially in a situation like this. If the CM wants to move the boy to another den or take him on as a personal project, then he can have at it. But I wouldn't tolerate the boy's behavior for a minute.

 

I'm not a great believer in the sentiment that "boys like him are the ones who need Scouting the most." I'll agree with that up to a point, but I put greater stock in the idea that if you can't behave like a Scout then you can't be a Scout.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

KC John says - I'd start this not by jumping to the CM or the Committee, but rather with the parents concerned.   But Wings said "His mom and stepdad don;t seem to care about this. When told they will yell at him but that is it."

KC says "Two deep leadership includes a different set of eyes on the young man in question. "  Wings already said "The other parents, including myself, do not want their bioys associtaing with him because of his behavior. "

KC : "A little time finding out the circumstances of the boy may help him, you, and your Den. "  

Nonsense.  If what Wings says is true, and I'm taking him at his word, he's followed those courses of action and gotten nowhere.  It's time to escalate.

As for John's YP comment, I concur.  If he's hitting (a form of hazing and abuse), then consult your DE.

[Sparkie]

When we had an issue like this, we told the parents that one of them would need to attend the den meetings with their son. It worked out very well.

 

However, in your case it sounds like the parents are using you as the unofficial Baby Sitter of America. They may just pull their son out if they have to attend meetings also. On the other hand, after being CM for 6 years, i have found some PARENTS need disciplining (they may find this behaviour acceptable... believe it or not).

 

The only other piece of advice i can give regarding the CM is to try to not let it become personal. The CM needs to do what's best for the pack and the den (not his friend). They need to be reminded that they have to wear the CM hat in this case, not the friend hat.

 

Good Luck

 

Sparkie

[John-in-KC]

Eagle in KY:

 

I had been thinking of an adult-youth YP issue surfacing. I've seen some domestic violence situations outside of Scouting, behavioral changes in a boy can result from family YP issues.

 

I had not thought of youth-youth YP.

 

Even so, your last (let the DE handle the further investigation at that point) is right on!!!

 

John

[Wallace]

As I have said before in these forums, the BSA is a voluntary organization and it is a honor to be a member.

Not every boy can be a member.

If you have done all you can to bring the program to the boy and his family, (sounds like you have) you have completed you obligation.

 

[eaglewings2002]

Just thought I would update you on the situation. After discussing it with the CM, we decided to tell his mom that he could not come to anything anymore unless she was with him. (He already was not coming to meetings but did come on the campout)If he acts up one more time, he is out. Not 100% satisfactory to me, but I'm not sure what would be. I am pretty well rid of him anyway as he will be officially gone at the end of the school year. Thanks for all your advice, I will remember it if it ever comes up again!!