Pocket Knives/ Totem Cards

[Kaufmannroy]

To the Forum,

 

I am about to introduce pocket knives to my Bears.

 

Aside from the info in the Bear Book, does anyone have ideas about how to introduce knives? My Parents are fine with the topic, however, I do not want to miss an opportunity to include ideas from others who have "been there, done that".

 

BTW, Does anyone know of a, inexpensive, source for lock-back pocket knives besides the Cub Scout pocket knife?

 

Have FUN,

Roy

[Bob White]

Hi roy, I always begin with a conversation about the difference between "tools and toys". We first go over the responsibilities that a person takes on when they use a tool. We then learn knife safety, how to care for the knife, and finally how to use it.

 

A good inexpensive product to use for carving material is a large bar of Ivory soap for each person.

 

The Victorinox Recruit is a good starter knife for Cubs. It sells for around $11

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[sm41]

Hi Roy, Just like Bob said. Do the toys and tool differences first. Then I always do minor first aid. IE how to wash a cut, put on a bandage and stuff. Then go over the safety rules. Never hand over a open pocket knife, always say "Thank You", or "Thank You I have it". The safety circle etc... I have them take a short test. About 10 questions on the rules and safety of knives. The next step is sharpening. Using a stone, wet or dry. I made 10 sharping blocks for my stones. Handle on one end with a guard. Then a place to put the stone. Then we go into carving. Carving is the easy part. I always started them with Ivory Soap. As for the knives. I was the beneficiary of a bunch of Swiss Army imitations from Sears. I went in and asked and they had a whole case of them that they gave away 3 yrs ago as incentive gifts. I do not recommend them for anything but training though.

[Kaufmannroy]

Bob,

 

Is the Victorinox Recruit a "lock back" pocket knife?

 

Have FUN,

Roy

[EagleInKY]

I agree w/Bob. A few other things.

 

Start with safety. Boys want to jump right into carving, but don't even do that the first week. Talk about how to open, close, handle, pass to someone, sharpen, etc.

 

I start with showing them my thumb. When I was 20, I was Handicraft Director at Scout Camp. In the weeks leading up to camp, I was preparing some demonstration materials and my non-locking blade pocket knife folded on my thumb, spliting it wide open from the tip to below the nail. They see the scar and recognize that these things really can hurt you - even when being careful.

 

When you start carving, you can first use plastic knives. We didn't do that, but I've seen some den leaders do that first. The bar of soap idea really works well.

[Bob White]

You will most likely have to make a choice. Do you want a good knife that is inexpensive, or a good knife with a lock-back blade? You will be hard pressed to find both in one knife.

 

I do not believe the recruiter locks.

 

If you teach the safety, and proper use of the knife, effectively then I think you will find the resistance on the folding blade is more than sufficient for safety. I have found with the younger boys that their struggle to work the lock causes greater control problems and higher safety risks than a good quality folding blade.

 

Adding the lock will probably drive the minimum price into the upper $20 range. I would offer the parents the information between the types of knives and let them choose what they want the scout to use.

 

One last point. You will find that a dull blade is far more likely to cause an injury regardles if the blade locks or not.

 

Bob

[Bob White]

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

You can get a decent lockback for about $12. Things to look for are lock that is solid (stay away from liner locks, the put the fingers in the way of the blades), a hinge that is solid and a blade that starts sharpe. Many inexpensive knives come with dull blades and then you spend forever sharpening them.

 

I have pocket knives that range in retail price from $150 down to $30 but I've bought decent knives for as low as $3 for my son or one of his buddies.

 

Shop around. Go to a gun show and talk to some knife vendors. Explain what you are doing. They might give you a bulk discount or Scouting discount.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whatever you do, stay away from serrated blades, they can do a number on small fingers.

 

 

[fotoscout]

HiKaufmannroy,

 

I just did this with my boys.

 

I started the week before by telling the boys what we were going to do at the upcoming meeting. I let them know that conduct and behavior would be of paramount importance at this particular meeting because of safety. I asked the parents to keep this in mind and to remind the boys before they left the house the following Tuesday. I also asked that all the parents be there for this one.

 

Midway thru the week, I sent out an email with a reminder!

 

Tuesday came and the boys were well prepared. They came in like little men, not Boys. First I had them disperse thru our meeting room and stake out a location. Then we did the Safety Circle Dance, arms out spinning in a circle to the Sponge Bob tune, or any other music you care to use,(Ive already forgotten what music I used, Souza would be good).

 

Then I had them go get chairs and drag them to their spots. At this point the boys have staked out their location and they werent even going let me into it! I spent a lot of time drilling the safety zone.

 

After that, I gathered up the boys, in a corner of the room and did the safety lecture. We demonstrated how to open and close the knife, then sent the boys back to their spots and had them practice with a parent. They had to do it properly, five times.

 

Next we moved to imaginary shavings. We demonstrated how to hold the knife, and the proper motion. The boys again went back to their spots and demonstrated the imaginary technique.

 

Now we move to the real thing.. Irish Spring Soap. It was the cheapest at Costco, but I understand that Ivory Soap flakes and cracks if you try to carve it. Each boy got a bar of soap and started shaving. We had them try to make a fish. Some could and some could not. I emphasized the shavings more than the shape of their carving. You want them to produce nice thin shavings, not chunks of soap. This can be very difficult for them.

 

As I said, each boy had a parent, and the parents sat with each boy and helped him. Very quietly we dispensed only three band-aids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing serious, but the boys were very sensitive about cutting themselves. Throughout the meeting I put up the sign and started the safety dance numerous times, some of the parents even got into it. And yes Bob, the boys had to close their knives, and put them back into their pockets before doing the dance.

 

At the end, I had the boys face the parent and recite the Safety pledge. It was great fun and the kids really enjoyed it.

 

The sad part is that contrary to instructions, some of the dads went out and bought the boys knives that are simply too big and heavy for a small boys hand. We had a leatherman multi tool, a rigging knife (fid and all), and even one of things they sell to dress down a deer. What the heck are people thinking??

 

The best part came the next week when we did the knife sharpening part of the exercise. This time we didnt ask for the parents to stay (although many do anyway). After instructing the boys to spread out, all I could hear was the chorus of youre in my safety zone, get out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

HANDY TIP,

 

Ivory soap needs to cure. Unwrap it three days in advance and it will carve better.

[Eamonn]

Some great stuff here.

Do remind them not to take their knives to school. My Lad did by mistake (Left it in his book bag after an OA weekend) and he got a three day suspension.

Eamonn

[Twocubdad]

Just taught this tonight with my younger son's den.

 

I start with first aid for cuts. We then talk about the safety rules and then how to take care of a knife. When it comes to sharpening, we start with wooden knives I made by ripping strips of oak about 6 x 1 x 1/4 thick. To make them a little more authentic, I grind them into a knife shape using a bench grinder. I make whet stones using a small block of wood wrapped in sandpaper. The boys can practice with the wooden knives as long as they like, until the get the motion and angle down. I also have little 15-degree wooden wedges the boys put between the knife blade and the whet stone to get the feel of the correct angle. I also have real whet stones they can use once the get it.

 

When it comes to carving, I cut neckerchief slide blanks out of soft pine. You can use any number of the slides in the BSA catalog for design ideas. The one thing I do differently is to leave a long "handle" with the block which we cut off with a small saw after the boys are through carving. This gives the boys a place to hold the piece that keeps their fingers back from the knife edge.

 

I teach the boys three cuts: a simple, long away cut like they're sharpening a marshmallow stick; a fine cut where they hold the knife with four fingers and curl the knife toward them by squeezing their fingers into a fist (it's important to show them to keep their tumb below the line of the knife blade so they don't get cut); and finally a stop cut where they make a short cross-grain cut then carve back to it.

[Proud Eagle]

Do put emphasis on their being places one shouldn't carry a knife. I once saw someone get hit in the head with a knife because of a freak incident involving someone having a knife in their jacket pocket in school.

 

I have also known many Scouters that have lost knives at the air port security checks.

 

 

[hops_scout]

My knife is a little bit akward, but it's a lockback that I got for 2 bucks.

 

A Scout is Thrift:)

[Fat Old Guy]

"(it's important to show them to keep their tumb below the line of the knife blade so they don't get cut)"

 

Don't you teach them to make a thumb buddy?