Can a Female Venturer be a Den Chief?

[captainron14]

Can someone help out? There is a dissusion going on in a "Venture" web group on this topic.

I say NO. The discription of who can be a Den Chief is "an older Boy Scout, Varsity Scout or a Venturer who was earlier a Boy Scout".

Is there a position called a "Den Aide"?

Someone suggested this in leu of the Den Chief position. Or if she were 18 or older Asst. Den Leader.

Any Comments?

[scoutldr]

The quoted description is pretty clear to me. As far as I know, "Den Aide" is not a registered position, but has been used unofficially, e.g., a Girl Scout daughter of a Den Leader who helps out with den meetings.

[fotoscout]

Hi,

 

Technically the position of Den Chief is a Boy Scout position. The boys work as a Den Chief and gain credit toward their advancements. This is an integral part of the advancement program within Boy Scouts. To my knowledge Venturing does not have an advancement program, although Venturing does have different award levels.

 

So, if a girl from a crew was to do the same job as a Den Chief, I dont think that she could accurately be called a Den Chief, in part because the Venturing Program does not recognize the position of Den Chief.

 

But, if this girl wanted to do the job, I see no reason why she couldnt do it. If she is using the service toward one of the Venturing awards, thats terrific. In our district she would even be welcome at Den Chief training.

 

From a Cub Scout perspective, a good Den Chief is a very valuable asset to the Den Leader and there are not enough BS willing to do the job. It makes no difference to me whether the person acting in the Den Chief capacity is a BS, GS, ADL, or Venture Crew member. Id certainly prefer to have a youth doing this job than an adult. I want the person to be committed to doing the job.

 

I think that the issue here is the Title and Den Chief Cord. Only a BS can technically be called the Den Chief & wear the Cord. Id think that you would also want to be careful about not taking an advance opportunity away from a BS. The big positive here is that you are part of the BSA organization.

 

Sorry but I'm not familar with a positon called the Den Aide.

 

[NJCubScouter]

An internet search on "den aide" turned up several position descriptions, all the same, so I assume they come from the current or past version of some official BSA publication. (Probably the Cub Scout Leader Book, which I don't have with me.)

 

The description is:

 

The Den Aide Role

 

Qualifications: A teenage boy or girl, ages 14 through 17, who helps the den leader succeed in bringing the benefits of Cub Scouting to the members of the den. The use of den aides is optional with packs, and is usually done where it is not possible to recruit den chiefs. Den aides are selected by the den leader, with approval from the Cubmaster and pack committee. This is a non-registered, non-membership position designed principally to strengthen Cub Scouting in rural and urban communities.

 

Responsibilities: The den aide's responsibilities are similar to those of the den chief, as determined by the den leader.

 

Interestingly, the "den aide" is also referred to in SOME versions of the requirements for the Den Leader Training Award. Some lists of those requirements include:

 

Have an assistant den leader, den chief, or den aide who meets regularly with your den.

 

The web site I found this on said it was the 1988 version of the requirements. However, a newer version I found breaks the assistant den leader and den chief into two separate requirements and omits the den aide. (You can tell a newer version of Cub Scout adult training award requirements because it requires Youth Protection Training whereas the older ones don't.)

 

So, does this mean that the position of "den aide" was de-recognized? Or de-emphasized? Or maybe just deemed unsuitable for mention in materials for nationwide distribution when it is really intended as an only-when-necessary position.

 

Also interesting is that fact that the den aide, being a non-registered, non-membership position, does NOT have to be a member of any Scouting program. So, Johnny's 16-year-old sister, can be a den aide regardless of whether she is a Venturer, but when she turns 18, if she and the pack desire for her to continue to assist a den in an official capacity, she must register as an Assistant Den Leader. As stated previously, a den chief must either be a Boy Scout, Varsity Scout or Venturer who was a Boy Scout.

 

And just for the record, I have never seen a "den aide" or heard of a pack actually having them. I only know about them from the internet. So how widespread the use of this position is, I cannot say. I do know that while I was a den leader and assistant cubmaster, my older daughter did help out at times, but was never registered. I believe she was already 19 when she started helping so it would have been as Assistant Den Leader anyway.

[ScoutNut]

As has been stated here, Den Chief is strictly a Boy Scout position and she would not be eligible to wear the Den Chief position patch or cords.

 

If your female Venturer has taken Program Aide training for GS, she can apply the hours spent working with a Cub Scout Den towards her Program Aide patch. There is also Leader-In-Training and various GS service/leadership awards she can put the hours towards. She just must remember that unlike BSA, GSUSA does NOT allow "double dipping". If she uses the hours towards her PA patch she can't use the same hours towards any other requirements.

[NWScouter]

Venturing does have an advancement program and working with Cub Scouts would fit in some of the requirements.

[NJCubScouter]

NW says:

 

Venturing does have an advancement program and working with Cub Scouts would fit in some of the requirements.

 

I was wondering about that. But correct me if I'm wrong, the Venturer could fulfill the same requirements by working with other youth groups such as Campfire, 4-H, church group or whatever, right? In other words there is no special mention in the requirement that it be a group within the BSA. Cubs would meet the requirement but so would other groups. (There, I said the exact same thing from 3 different directions, but lately I have learned that I can't count on being understood by some people around here unless I do that... and no, NW, that was NOT directed at you.)

 

On the other hand, obviously, the position of den chief can ONLY be performed by working with a Cub Scout den.

[dsteele]

Let me deal with the easy part first.

 

From section 23, page 13 of the latest Cub Scout leader book:

 

"Cub Scout Den Chief

 

Qualifications: Be an older Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Venturer who has been a Boy Scout, ideally at least First Class rank."

 

So the short answer to the short question is "No."

 

The Den Aide question takes a little bit more. NJ is correct that he found some national job descriptions. Den Aide is one of the topics that was touched on when I went to National Executive Institute in 1989. The job description presented to us was very similar to the one he posted.

 

I think there may have even been a patch. There was at least a logo.

 

The position was designed mostly as a way of recognizing the big sister who helped out at den meetings. Once it kind of disappeared from the literature, however, the idea lived on. It never really seemed to catch on -- in my opinion it didn't catch on because big sisters had always been out there helping and calling them a Den Aide did neither harm nor good.

 

I think it's great if a female Venturer wants to work with a Cub Scout Den. It seems to me that calling her a Den Aide is as good a term as any.

 

DS

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

If an adult, non-parent or non-guardian of a Den member, wanted to work with the Den I would highly recommend that they be treated as any adult pack leader. They should be required to comlete an adult aplication, present the pack committee chair with personal references, and take the basic training for their position in the pack.

 

There are Youth protection and liability issues that must be considered for the protection of the members and the Chartering Organization.