Retention

[sctmom]

In this troop, the first night I visited the Scoutmaster sat and talked with me about how the troop works and answered any questions I had. A few weeks later, some of the Webelos and parents from our pack visited. The Boy Scouts put on a great program for the boys --- had them do fun patrol competitions like tent setup, a very low one-rope rope course. The SM spent over an hour talking to the parents.

 

I know for me it took a long time for "boy led" to really sink in. It took a lot of reading BSA materials and forums like this. The other parents from our pack (have been in Scouting as long as my family) just weren't getting it. It was the first time they had heard it.

 

I don't think anyone can explain in one hour how Boy Scouting works. I don't think anyone can understand it in one hour. Also, I don't have the magical answer of how to solve that.

 

The parents were also given a document of about 4 pages that described the troop and how it is boy-led. Describing dues, activities, what Scouting can mean to your son, places for parents to volunteer, how patrols buy and cook their food, summer camp, etc.

 

From what I hear, Girl Scouts have a hard time with retention at this age as well. I have talked to a couple of former Girl Scout leaders who said "we just didn't understand that stuff for Cadettes". Cadettes start around 7th grade. Girl Scouts is more seamless than the Cub to Boy transition in my opinion. Yet still many parents and leaders just can't make the jump to Cadettes -- it seems to have more focus on Girl Leadership and the badges are more complex and time consuming, requiring community service related to each one.

 

[Bob White]

Excuse my OGE but, if you are suggesting that we communicate information to adults in order to educate them about scouting, and to effect a change in their actions or attitiude.....isn't that a definition of training.

 

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Bob White]

sctmom,

If the parents aren't getting it, could it be in the way the info is presented or what info is presented? There is a phrase in teaching that says "If the learner hasn't learned than the teacher hasn't taught".

 

In the new New Leader Essentials the history of scouting along with the mission aims and methods of Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity and and Venturing is explained in just 90 minutes. In addition it explains the changing needs and characteristics of youth as go through developmental stages. Maybe this would be a helpful program to give the new parents early on in the their troop experience.

 

Bob

[CubsRgr8]

The troop my son joined has a great program. It uses the new scout patrol program, has a camp outing almost every month, goes to summer camp, doesn't make a big deal if a boy is busy with sports/drama/whatever for a season, and has an excellent retention rate with the boys after the first year.

 

After reading your posts, I suspect that many parents/boys don't understand how the troop program is supposed to work. So, I'm thinking it's time to reach out to the other new scout parents and see if we, as parents, can't improve our class's retention rate. Perhaps a couple of parent sessions during troop meetings to get to know each other and raise the overall commitment level. What do you think?

[Bob White]

CubsRgr8,

Sounds like a very positive move to fix a very serious problem.

 

Bob

[OldGreyEagle]

Bob, first you say

 

"Excuse my OGE but, if you are suggesting that we communicate information to adults in order to educate them about scouting, and to effect a change in their actions or attitiude.....isn't that a definition of training."

 

then 15 minutes later you say

 

"There is a phrase in teaching that says "If the learner hasn't learned than the teacher hasn't taught"

 

What I want to communicate is that same idea

 

I agree "training" is required, but the current programs dont seem to be doing the job for whatever reason. I know the training has been changed, but it seems like it has been changed to a less detailed presentation.

 

 

Now I know the above sounds like its from the Department of Redundancy Department, but I hope you understand what I mean

 

Its the content of the training, not the concept of training I quesiton.

 

On the parental side:

 

Does National have a print out of what new scouting parents should know ? Of the goals and objectives of the program? If not, wouldnt that be a good idea? A parent orientation manual? That way everyone gets the same message worded the same way?

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Bob White]

OGE

Yes, It is part of the new training you meentioned, called New Leader Essentials.

 

Can I ask, and I don't mean to be flip, You say you know there is new training but what parts of it have you actually been to?

 

It is far more detailed than before. Now when you go it is job specific training, you learn about and discuss your particular job responsibilities. How can it be more detailed than that?

 

Bob

[sctmom]

What our troop just experienced with a few parents was due a lot to lack of knowledge. The parents had been very active in Cub Scouting. The visited one troop meeting before joining. Then we all went on a campout.

 

The troop had an influx of new scouts so went with the New Scout Patrol Method, having 2 New Scout Patrols. Once the boys reach First Class they can change patrols if they want. My son's patrol also included a 13 year old who has been with the troop for 1 year and is not advancing very quickly. He is the patrol leader. The troop guides really sat on the sidelines at the campout. The patrol leader has been in the troop long enough to know the rules and procedures. But he is struggling. The SM and ASM on the campout, kept an eye on him, pulling him aside when necessary (like when he was cussing). Ten kids in the patrol, 9 on their first or second Boy Scout campout. Chaos is a good way to describe much of the weekend, but not dangerous.

 

Parents of 2 other boys were on the campout. They were not happy with some of what they saw. I was not happy with some of what I saw from the troop either. The others may have been upset with me as well because I told both of the boys that "my mom has it" is not an answer to "where is your handbook". The same with my son. I had to at one point tell him that "mom" was not on this campout.

 

Cleanup Sunday morning started out bad and went downhill, drug on for hours even with many friendly reminders from myself and the ASM. When we realized things were getting worse than when they started, I threw up my hands and told the ASM I wasn't going back over there. He did some LOUD talking to get their attention. The boys did a few pushups. The troop guides were pulled in. The site got clean. The other parents took their boys and left before clean up was done. My chance to be brutally honest to the SM happened. I told him "I don't like some of what I've seen. I don't like the pushups and ....". He said he was willing to talk and change. He admitted the pushups were not being effective. I don't know what the other parents said to him. I have not seen them since, only heard that they didn't like A LOT of what they saw. They have gone to another troop that was having problems and has recently changed leadership (probably for the better).

 

I know they didn't like the 13 year old being a Patrol Leader "with no experience". I tried to explain how they get experience. It was also made clear to us 1/2 way through the weekend, that we had as much authority as the SM to oversee anything we wanted to. Even though I was very upset on Saturday evening, after the "show down" on Sunday I felt much better. I went home feeling that I can approach the SM and he WILL listen as long as I am rational and calm. We haven't had a chance to talk much since then, but he did thank me for sticking in there and admitted they made some mistakes about the new scout patrols and were correcting those.

 

The point of this long story is that much of what the other parents' frustrations I think come from lack of understanding the program. As I said early, it's a whole new concept for many. I have tried comparing it to school -- the teachers don't want to hear "I didn't do my homework because Mom didn't remind me." Yet, even that doesn't cover it all. The boy-led troop is chaos at many times. The boys make mistakes and so do the adults.

 

I may do as Cubs is considering and see what I can do to help retain the nearly 18 new scouts this troop just signed up. Many parents never come into the troop meeting, they drop the kids at the door. They have other kids, other obligations, etc.

 

I was thinking a "get to know you" picnic might be good, but this is such a busy time of year for most. Maybe a few "get to know you" events during troop meetings. The reason I saw more than one, is that if a parent can't come this week, maybe next week.

 

Cubsrgr8, Another comment in your message will continue to come up for you -- keep them until they are 18. The next thing you may realize is the expectation that all boys will drop out by the time they are 15 or 16. That's a battle for down the road for me...let's start with keeping them that first year.

 

Other threads have discussed what to do with new parents who are looking for a way to be involved (like ME). Maybe this is the way. I'm not sure working directly with the boys is the best place for me in the troop at this time, at least not ONLY working with the boys.

 

Hmmm.....thinking of shooting an email to the SM and CC about some thoughts.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Ok, Bob, you got me, havent been to the new training, just was talking about what I had been told, will check it out IN PERSON as soon as possible.

 

Now, what about the parental orientation brochure from National, we have scout handbook, a scoutmaster handbook, all manner of training materials, why not a parental informational sheet?

[Mike F]

sctmom,

 

Some amount of chaos normal -- hope turned into learning experience for all.

 

We use an older boy as PL for New Scout Patrols, too, for the first 6 months. But our SPL and SM hand-pick one of the sharper 13-14 yr olds with maturity, demonstrated skills and ability to teach.

 

Parent's involvement is mixed blessing. They can keep an eye on their son, but do it from a distance. Sure son is going to make some mistakes and the leaders (hopefully PL) will call him down on it. Boy leaders will make mistakes, too, but that needs to be handled by the SPL, SM and his trained/experienced ASMs. Parent needs to stay out of the mix. Johnny already caught grief once - he doesn't need more from mom/dad.

 

As far as where best to contribute, every good troop has a huge amount of work to do behind the boy-led scout skill scene. Equipment, advancement records, finances, camping permission, etc. You can be a blessing wherever you're willing to pitch in!

[Bob White]

OGE

 

The recommended material to use is New Leader Essentials, and the new Fast Start video which is just being distributed to Councils as we post.

 

Combined with your troop specific information, these short program, 90 Min. for NLE and I belive under 30 min. for Fast Start (I haven't recived the new version yet either) should bring any new parent up to speed about what scouting is and Why we do, What we do, and How we do it.

 

Bob

[Rooster7]

Just a few thoughts

 

One, most parents/guardians do not get actively involved in BSA as an organization. From my observations, it appears that most troops/packs are run by 20 to 30 percent of the adults, or less. I don't offer any excuses for the lack of participation. It's only an observation, and no its not backed up by any statistics (at least none that I can point to). But I think it is safe to say, the majority of parents are bystanders. I see this as a local problem that the pack or troop leadership should address, but very often does not.

 

Two, most new Scouters (i.e., parents bridging with their sons) eventually want some input into the troop as to how it supports the Scouts and provide oversight.

 

Three, not every parent/guardian is going to get formal training (for a variety of reasons). However, every parent/guardian should be educated about the program, if not formally, then informally through the pack or troop.

 

Four, either through oversight or by design, many Scouters do not distinguish their personal preferences from BSA policy, or from troop policy. That is to say, I have seen many examples where parents were provided information about Scouting without qualification as to it being a BSA policy, a troop policy, or merely a preference of individuals within the pack or troop. This leads to much confusion down the road.

 

In short, because one and two are true (just my opinion), it is very important that three (training, whether it be formal or informal) occurs, and with careful consideration to four (source and authority). If we don't do four, then we (Scouters providing guidance and training) lose credibility. If we lose credibility, then all the training in world is useless.

 

[buffalo2]

Might seem kinda obvious, but as we focus our retention efforts on our Scouts through a pretty comprehensive outdoor program we can be neglecting their parents...

How do we OPEN this effort to include parents? Certainly there are some tried and true avenues, but what about the ones that only make it to Courts of Honor? Heard it said earlier that many of these folks are going all out for their kids but are just ignorant of what we're going after with Scouting.

[sctmom]

Rooster makes some good points about credibility. The sad part is that even if you point out THIS is the BSA way, not just my personal preference, there are some people who aren't going to care.

 

My mother is well intentioned but she made a remark last year that I think will illustrate my point. She went with us on a Cub Scout Family campout. After being around some of the other parents and leaders, I was telling her what a great guy the other leader was and how good he was with the boys. Her comment was "Yeah, he seems great. Seems like the type of guy who won't just go by the book."

Wellllll.....how often is it a good idea to NOT go "by the book" of BSA? Seems to me that most BSA books aren't so strict that you can't tailor it for your situation.

 

Are other parents this way? Haven't I heard of the parents and trained leaders saying "but this is the way I discipline at home or on the ball field"? We have those parents to deal with as well.

 

 

Just playing devil's advocate here. Not trying to sound so pessimistic.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

perhaps there should be a national brochure developed that would outline the Scouting program for new parents, it could explain the concept of the patrol method and list anticpated gear requirements, and a whole bunch other stuff I cant think of right now. The advantge would be all parents in the country would be getting the same message written the same way. Having a signed statement that this brochure was received may be a requirement for Scout.

 

I know this brochure would not solve all the problems, I know a percentage of parents will sign they read it and never will. But, at least many more people will have seen the goals of Boy Scouts and will know what to expect. It dosesnt have to be long, just carry the basic information that many troops distribute, but in a consistent manner.