Who goes family camping?

[sctmom]

In another thread NJCubscouter said the following:

 

(But now that I think about it, even calling it family camping is misleading to a degree. The name Cub Camporee was probably the most descriptive of the the three. It really is a Camporee scaled down to Cub Scout size, with the "unit competition" aspect removed and everything being planned and run by adults with some assistance from older Boy Scouts. As far as the camping itself, the focus was really on the pack rather than the family. (And the "family" was usually a father and son(s) in their own tent, though there were usually 2 or 3 mothers along as well, either with husband or not. Now and then a family would be there with dad, mom, Cub and 4-year-old little sister; but since this was happening at a Boy Scout camp, with all the (ahem) accommodations of a Boy Scout campsite, by the next trip mom and little sis mysteriously found something better to do for the weekend, in the warmth and dryness of their home, with its beds and bathrooms.) The pack was together in a site, and we cooked as a pack, with the adults leading the way, usually assisted by boys going for their Outdoorsman badge.)

 

 

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Okay, I have some comments. Our council Scout camp isn't luxurious but it does have some flush toilets. Our pack and most in our district do FAMILY camping a few times a year. That means the WHOLE family, everybody from toddlers to grandmas.

 

I think your assumption about why the females don't come back may be WRONG. How about the fact they get the hint that they aren't welcome?

How do you handle the boys with no dad around (divorce, death, illness, job, military, etc)?

What about the dad who has to bring the other kids because mom is not available?

 

[Twocubdad]

We do everything we can to try and encourage the moms to camp. While dads may bring the latest Binford fly rod, it's the moms who bring the big tin of chocolate chip cookies.

 

There's not a lot you can do about facilities. But the bottom line is that camping is camping -- moms (and a lot of dads, for that matter) just aren't interested. But the one thing we can do is make sure they know they're welcome. From time-to-time we've had single moms (or just single-for-the-weekend moms) on campouts and we try to make sure they have plenty of help hauling gear, setting up tents and that sort of thing.

[sctmom]

True, some people will not camp no matter what, but I sometimes hear that Cub Scout camping is for son and dad. I got that impression from NJ's post as well.

While that would be wonderful in some way, (moms love weekends alone..lol), it isn't the way it happens.

Many people around here look at the Cub Scout campouts as a cheap weekend away. Seriously, we have had toddlers, teenagers (girls and boys), grandparents (my mother went on one campout). It's like a big extended family. You know, back in the "good ol' days" when we were all youngsters and ran the neighborhood until after dark.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Hey, no offense meant there, sctmom.

 

What I was mainly referring to there were a few instances where the person who really was not having a great time was the younger sister. These were girls 4, 5, 6 years old. It seems to me that there was one very young boy there at one time, maybe 2 or 3 years old. It was my opinion that the situation really was not very suitable for them, but I never said anything. Evidently their parents agreed, because the young children did not come back the next time, and invariably it seemed to be Mom who chose to stay home with the little sister. In each case I can think of, the father was also a den leader, so it really did make sense in those cases for the father to be the one to return.

 

I also don't think the mothers were given the feeling that they weren't wanted. In fact, there were mothers on every trip. A few of them attended every time, and they had as good a time as everybody else. We had some mothers who were great campers. The fact of the matter, though, is that 70 to 80 percent of the adults on every trip were male. In the situations where there were no fathers, there was an uncle. It appeared, however, that we only had one or two single-parent families at any given time. Nobody ever said it was just for fathers and sons, but the majority of the time that was who was there.

 

As far as why the situation was not suitable for young children, the facilities were only one factor. There were no flush toilets. There were latrines with a hole with a toilet seat on it. Factor two were the sites themselves, most of them were very rocky -- many large rocks. Everybody had to be pretty careful not to get hurt. (Of course, some of the older Cubs seemed to be on a mission to end up with stitches in their heads, dashing through the campsites as if it were a smooth lawn. I remember one time seeing two boys running, one after the other, and calling to them "Stop running!" On "stop" boy number 1 tripped on a rock and went down with a thud. On "running" boy number 2 tripped, probably on the same rock, and went down with a thud. Fortunately they did not fall on any other rocks. Factor three, I think, was the distance that usually had to be walked between the parking lot, the campsites and the various activities, over hilly terrain. It was a little too much for some of the younger Cubs (and frankly one time the walk didn't do me that much good over the course of the weekend, either.) But again, it was roughest on the kids below Cub age. What usually happened was that the carts a lot of families brought to carry equipment ended up carrying little children as well... and again, over rocks.

 

My main point really, is that in this particular case I thought that these Boy Scout campsites really should have been reserved for Boy Scouts, or older Cub Scouts. Even some of the Tigers were probably too young for this.

 

And I haven't even mentioned what happened the one time it rained all weekend...

[Laurie]

We do! We do!

 

Our council camp has a reservation with 3 separate campgrounds, one of them for Cubs, the other 2 for Boy Scouts. I planned the camping trip, and it was interesting to hear questions and comments along the way. First, there had been no camping for at least 2 years, maybe longer--noone wanted to plan it. So, I set the date and reserved the spot and got it all together. Can moms go? Yes I would answer, please come if you can. How about grandmoms? You bet! Sisters? Yes, them too. This is a *family* camping trip. That was hard for some--they kept calling it the father-son overnighter. Nope, it was one of several weekends designated for families--entire families, male and/or female. Only requirement: must bring a Cub with you The activities were geared toward youth; however, the entire family could participate and was encouraged to. If there was a craft for a Cub, any adult or sibling could join in it too. We had moms and dads with reservations about going due to accomodations, and I found the Boy Scout leader dads to be funniest of all. You mean, we don't need a matress? Well, I'm packing one anyway, I'm not going to be uncomfortable. Things like that. The good news: unanimous decision to go back, the sooner the better. The woman were welcomed; the siblings were welcomed; all had fun. However, a key thing in setting the tone was to make it very clear right up front that ALL were welcome. All leaders knew this was a for all the family, and eventually the name father-son campout was dropped. Oh, and though I planned it, I didn't go. We have a 2-yr-old at home, and I felt it more important for my son to have some time with his dad away than for me to try to chase a baby around at camp. That was my choice though; we all could have gone, even the baby.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[ScoutNut]

" Factor two were the sites themselves, most of them were very rocky -- many large rocks. Everybody had to be pretty careful not to get hurt."

 

And you keep going back there? No wonder you don't get the younger kids or moms. When you are planning a Cub Scout Family Camp you have to plan for the whole family. Not just for the dad and Cub. If you make the location and the activities unappealing for the younger sibs then guess who has to stay home with them next time. If you guessed dad I bet in about 90% of the cases you would be wrong! This does not mean that mom or little kids don't want to go. It means that the family doesn't think that the campout is really appropriate for the whole family (even if the Pack is billing it as such).

 

You have to keep in mind that most Cub families haver never camped before. Some of the parents might have camped a little as a youth and some of the families might be avid campers, but the majority are novices. And pretty nervous about the whole thing too! What we did was pick a place that had a cabin with bunks, but also had room for tents. This way we could cook both inside and out, had flush toilets, and basically made it comfortable for everyone, no matter what their taste.

 

This past July was the first time my Pack has camped in quite a few years. We had a small turnout and there are things I will adjust for next time, but all in all, everyone who came said they had a great time and are looking forward to the next one! What also helped was that we were only about 30-45 min away and very flexible. Families felt comfortable in just dropping by for the day, coming and going, or only staying for 1 night (we did Fri & Sat night). As we do more camping the families will get more comfortable with it and more will attend. But I will keep in mind that there will always be a portion of the families (Tigers) who are new to camping and some who might not like it very much, but are trying their best for their Cub's sake. So I doubt if we will ever go to all tent or completely roughing it. I want to keep those families camping!

[sctmom]

Scoutnut hit on something I hadn't thought about -- you keep going back to a place that is not good for Cub Family camping!

Someone in the pack needs to take BALOO. Part of BALOO talks about how you need to choose an approriate place to camp -- decent facilities, safe, easy access, etc. Also, how to plan activities approriate for all ages of Cubs and siblings.

 

[SagerScout]

Years ago, I voluntarily stayed home with my toddlers and sent my older son with his Dad, as chasing toddlers in unsafe environments does not make for a relaxing weekend. Tried it a few times and it wasn't fun.

 

Now their Dad stays home with whoever isn't going.

 

Slightly off topic but for those who haven't tried it: IMHO the only effective way to slow down running kids is to inform them up front that running is NOT allowed, and then when you see one run, make him go back to the point he began to run and WALK the distance again. Just telling them to stop running is a temporary fix but making them double back imprints it on their little brains - particularly if they, for instance, lose their place in the chow line or some such thing.

 

[NJCubScouter]

I think something has gotten a bit lost in translation here.

 

Neither my pack nor anyone in it chose the site. This was a council event, each district having the camp to itself for one weekend. I made that clear in the other thread, from which a portion of my post was extracted. I am sure sctmom did not mean to do it, but from my words as they appear in this thread it WOULD appear as if this was a pack event. It was not. As for why the council chose to have the event in this camp... well, it's the council's camp. The council has two full-fledged camps (not counting a high adventure base in another state), and the other one (which is used exclusively for Boy Scout summer camp and weekend camping as well as adult training) is probably LESS suitable for Cub Scouts and their younger siblings.

 

Finally, I want to point out that "I" don't "keep going back," as one person mentioned. My posts about this subject have been mostly in the past tense, because they deal with the time period when my son was in the Cub Scouts. He is now a Boy Scout and my leadership position is now with his troop, no longer with the pack.

[sctmom]

NJ, wasn't trying to attack you, I've heard of the same type of packs not far from where I live --- it amazes me, that's all.

Your council and district then need to understand what Cub Family camping is and should be.

 

I guess because I grew up camping, I don't understand the problem with rocks and pit toilets. No, I don't prefer a pit toilet, I prefer a flushie in a room with a real door, a light and sink with running water.

It sounds more like that you live in a neighborhood that has few non-traditional families in the pack.

 

My point was to point out to other scouters that they need to be sure NOT to exclude the boys without a camping dad.