Purpose of Den Dues?

[Newbs]

What is the purpose of den dues, and how much should they be?

[evmori]

The purpose of den dues is to help offset the cost of supplies (crafts & the like) the Den Leader pays out. Badges, arrow points, etc. should come from the Pack main fund, not the Den fund. The amount should be minimal. Usually $5/month is a maximum guideline.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OneHour]

I usually have two ways of taking care of Den Dues:

1) $1/meeting

2) $20 for the whole year (five months with 2 meetings per month)

 

It is adjustable depending on the type of Den activity that we are doing.

 

My Den parents like the lump sum better for some reasons. Now, if there is left over, I usually take the boys out for an ice cream party at the end of the year (I usually make up the difference). I ask the parents to bring in old sissors, rulers, markers, crayons, color papers, glues, etc. that the kids usually bring home at the last day of the school year and I would pile 'em up in a box. Also, start to collect junk! Toilet paper rolls, cans, pvc pipes, sheets of felts, old shirt (for painting), hotel soaps (bear's carving), etc. In other words, be frugal and creative. Finally, set your year plan ahead of time so that you can easily set the budget for your den (something that Den Leaders do not like to do). Remember this due does not cover your outings! Make sure that your parents understand that. A lot of parents expect the Pack dues and the Den dues to cover a sleepover at the Battleship (for example) or they expect for it to cover the uniform or book. It may, but I have found a Pack that does that, because their dues would be sitting close to $100!

 

Cheers,

 

1Hour

 

 

[Twocubdad]

I believe the primary purpose of den dues is the lesson in responsibility it teaches the boys -- having to remember dues and possibly earning the money themselves at home.

 

That said, tracking dues can be a huge pain for the leaders, especially if the amount is significant and intended to pay for den programs. Our Pack does not collect den dues, but collects annual dues at registration time. All the money goes to the Pack treasury. Den leaders are given a budget for den supplies and are reimburesed by the treasurer.

 

True, we miss that lesson in responisbility, but there are other ways of making that point -- being responsible for tracking your own achievements, taking care of your uniform, bringing you handbook to every meeting, etc. -- which don't create a huge administrative problem.

[KoreaScouter]

I'm not sure I agree the primary purpose of den dues is to pay for supplies, advancements, etc. If that were the case, there are many more time-efficient and effective means of doing that. Rather, I agree with posters who see the primary purpose as instilling a sense of responsibility, thrift, and the value of money in a boy.

 

If dues are collected in a lump sum as part of the check mom/dad writes at the beginning of the year, we've lost that opportunity. Ideally, the dues are earned by the Scout through household chores, his participation in Pack money earning projects, or for the older lads, a paper route or some other similar job.

 

When I was a Cub Scouter, I thought the dues collection was a major pain in the neck, and saw the fits it gave our Pack treasurer. Now that I am a Boy Scouter, I can more fully appreciate how, by laying a foundation early, we can teach the lessons of thrift and financial responsibility to our Scouts.

 

In that context, the amount is irrelevant. It could be $.25 a week to teach the values, unless the unit needs the money, then the amount should be whatever it needs to be to maintain the cash flow.

 

KS

[dsteele]

I'm glad to see that the responsibility theme to dues came into play. It seems to me that it's quite often forgotten. When I was a Cub Scout (and Boy Scout for that matter) I was supposed to bring some small amount (I can't remember if it was 25 or 50 cents to each meeting.) I was never sure what it paid for, but it was a rule and I tried to follow it. I'm pretty sure my parents asked if they could write a check to cover it, but a wise leader pointed out to them that it should be "my money" and that I should carry it to every meeting.

 

I'll never forget the time I used the quarter to buy "Now & Laters" grape. I didn't have it for the meeting and the den leader had a blank check box on her dues collecting envelope. Boy did I learn a lesson when my parents found out they still owed a quarter. I learned that sometimes when someone says, "It's not the money, it's the principle of the thing" that it really IS the principle.

 

There is a BSA document that explains the purpose of dues and is largely ignored . . . even though it usually goes out stuffed in every re-charter packet. It's called the Pack/Troop budget plan. It calls for collecting dues and doesn't mention parents writing a lump sum check.

 

Lots of packs/troops/crews do the lump sum thing, and it isn't against the rules. However, I think they're missing out on one of the lessons of Scouting for the sake of convenience. It's not the only tool, so I've never fought with a unit that doesn't collect dues and/or isn't on the official budget plan. But I do ask that you check into it and think about adopting it.

 

The other side of the budget plan is based on parents paying the BSA registration fee only once -- when the boy first joins. After that it ought to come from dues and/or unit fundraisers.

 

DS

[shemgren]

The "Unit Budget Plan", No. 28-426O, shows repeatedly that dues are to be the primary source for funding for the unit. Many units interupt this to charge an annual unit fee to cover basic expenses of the unit: including charter fees, Boys Life, accident insurance, reserve fund, and other basic expenses (badges, literature, goodwill).

 

"A well rounded unit program requires suppmental income." This is where fundraising comes in.

 

Den expenses MUST be included in the overall pack budget. A Den Leader SHOULD BE EXPECTED TO COVER THOSE EXPENSES OUT OF POCKET! The dues should cover the den expenses at a bare minimium.

 

To gather the dues on weekly or regular basis helps the Scouts develop character. When I was a Cub Scout, dues were paid weekly and I was expected to earn the money myself, not just get it from Mom and Dad.

 

[dsteele]

I agree strongly with Shemgren's post. Correct me if I'm wrong, however, Shemgren, but I believe you accidently left out the word NOT out of your qoute about den leaders paying expenses out of their pocket. I think you meant DEN LEADERS SHOULD NOT PAY EXPENSES OUT OF THEIR POCKETS.

 

Other than that, you're right on. Also, just in case anyone thinks I only carried my parents money to the den meeting to pay my dues, let me clarify what I meant. I received an allowance from my parents. That's how I paid my den dues. Part of my brain (the part that is still a child) considers it money they "gave" me. In thinking about it more deeply, it wasn't them vacuuming the house every day, doing the dishes every evening, etc. and all for a buck a week. I guess that was "my" money. However, as a cub aged child, I didn't understand then that I was getting in trouble for using my money to buy candy when I owed it to the den . . . that just dawned on me now. Isn't it amazing that it sometimes takes so long for the lessons a parent imparts to come to grips with their child. Thanks, Mom and Dad!

 

DS

[KoreaScouter]

We're in a unique (and I guess, great) situation; our CO pays our recharter fee, to include Boy's Life subscriptions for all. In return, our CO expects (and receives) our Scouts' participation in their patriotic and community service activities...win-win.

 

KS

[fotoscout]

We don't pay den dues per say. We pay $7.00 pre month, period. Preferably paid as a lump sum at the beginnings of the school year.

 

50% of the money goes to the pack fund for registration, Boys Life, badges, patches, awards, etc.... and 50% goes to the den. The Pack does not pay for shirts, trips, or other special events. The Pack will pay for special "speakers" at a pack meeting, or will supplement Blue and Gold activities. The Den portion goes to Den expenses to be used at the discretion of the Den Leader. Any Den funds left over at the end of June revert back to the Pack Fund. For us this seems to work, the Treasurer is not constantly going to the bank, and the Den Leaders are not constantly trying to do the book keeping for dues payments.

 

The trick here is for the Den Leaders to properly plan his expenditures. Last year I bought the boys some nice little binoculars as a graduation present at the end of the year. This year, because I bought name tags for all of my boys, there will barely be enough money to support our year end camping trip.

 

As for the Responsiblily theme, it's a great concept, and maybe it works elsewhere this great country of ours, but here I think it would be lost on the kids, let alone the Den Leaders.

 

 

 

 

[OneHour]

"As for the Responsiblily theme, it's a great concept, and maybe it works elsewhere this great country of ours, but here I think it would be lost on the kids, let alone the Den Leaders."

 

Ditto, fotoscout. Responsibility theme is great and ideal, but here, we have a hard enough time to get the parents to be responsible enough to take their sons to the Den meeting! Some these are the same people who ask that they just sign a check instead of subjecting their sons in a practice such as selling popcorn or scout fair ticket or any fundraiser! Some ... are firm believers in BSA (the Baby-sitting Services of America version that is!) and thus getting them to even remember that the Den meetings are 2nd and 4th Tuesday of every month and Pack meeting is 1st Monday of every month is a challenge, forget about getting little Billy to bring Den dues and definitely forget about getting Billy to work for his dues! Yes ... these are the same people who constantly ask ... when is the Pack meeting and when is the Den meetings? Hmmm, it still amazes me how some of these people function at work or at home!

 

1Hour

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Scouting is filled with little nuances of activities. Things that seem to look "good in the book" but not feasible in feal life. On closer inspection it's these little activities that teach the most important lessons (and real life is what you make it).

 

Dues is one of these. Teaching scouts at an early age the care and handling of a budget is an important life lesson. It is the weekly use of this skill that turns it into a lifelong habit.

 

Den dues is not tough to do if you teach the cubs how and why it is done. The simpliest method I have seen is the monthly dues envelope. Each week the Denner hands each boy a dues envelope that has their name on it. The boys put in a dollar a week during a single month and the den leader or asst reminds them of how much should now be in their envelope that week. At the end of the month, the adult leaders checks the amount in the envelope and complete the dues report to the pack treasurer. At the first meeting of the month the process starts again.

 

If a scouts dues envelope is short at month's end the den leader can speak with the parents about the lessons that the program is trying to teach the scout regarding personal responsibility and work with the parent and cub to get caught up.

 

When my wife was a den leader she suggested to the parents that each cub be given a special work detail at home each week that earned hin his den dues. Many families used this to begin their allowance program and a family budget with their sons.

 

Bob White

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Obviously, fotoscout and One Hour, you guys aren't saying teaching responsibility isn't worth the effort. Responsibility is one of the 12 core values of Cub Scouting and I would add that it is one of the most important. There are many ways of working responsibility into the program, dues is one of them.

 

I do agree with you guys that using dues to teach responsibility is an expensive lesson in terms of leader time, attention and aggravation. Perhaps if the amount is fairly insignificant and only goes toward snacks or a den party, it doesn't have to be that big of a deal. But it becomes a different league if the money is really needed to operate the pack.

 

Weekly dues for our pack would average about $3.00 per meeting. My own kids don't have that much money on a routine basis. Do the math, and as a pack we would be managing several thousand transactions over a year. Then deal with past dues, kids who drop out owing money, etc., etc. Frankly, it's a hassle collecting a check once a year from the parents. At crossover this year, we had to tell several families that their sons' AOL and crossover stuff would be on a COD basis. (Of course we were only kidding -- well, sort of kidding -- no, to tell the truth, we really meant it.)

 

Philosophically, Bob, you're right about the lessons that dues teach the boys. But we all have to budget our resources, both time and money, and make choices about how we can be most effective.

[OneHour]

"... teach responsibility is an expensive lesson in terms of leader time, attention and aggravation."

 

Twocubdad, time is what I (and the likes of you and me) have to give and willingly give. Attention and aggravation about den dues are not really the issue. The issue at hand for me is to get the boys to the Den meetings! That's half the battle! It took me well over three months to collect money for the Pack t-shirt that everyone wants. So Den dues will be the least likely to be remembered.

 

Some of the boys love Cubscouting, but their parents appearantly think that it's a chore to take their son! But if you were to form a baseball team, you'll see them their in full uniform, dues, and attendance!

 

There are other (as Bob White puts it) "nuances of activities" that I use to teach 'em Responsibilities and other scouting values. Den dues and Pack dues are not one of them.

 

OneHour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[FScouter]

There are a lot of things about Scouting that are hassle. Administering a dues program is one of them. Our troop is now dueing the dues thing and it can be a hassle with dues envelopes, recordkeeping, unpaid dues, and complaints. Some of the boys show up with blank checks from Mom, others forget weeks at a time, another shows up with a $20 bill and wants change, etc., etc. etc.

 

And then there are some boys that pay their dollar religiously every meeting using their nickels and pennies. They wouldnt dream of not paying their dues. They make sure the scribe puts a check in the box next to their name. They are the ones that are learning something about budgeting and responsibility.

 

And because developing responsibility and character in boys helps fulfill the mission of Scouting, our troop will continue to do the dues thing.