Are religious services optional?

[Chippewa29]

Of the 11 youth members of my troop, six different churches in five different denominations (including one Jewish Scout) are represented. As I am not a very religious person and believe that religion should be an individual pursuit, we don't conduct any type of religious services in our unit. Obviously, if a troop is strongly affiliated with a particular faith (such as the LDS or Jewish and sometimes Catholic), then religious services are very appropriate.

 

However, in a "secular" troop (like mine), I believe that the Scouts should be encouraged to study and develop their own spirituality. For example, for Scout Sunday, we had a parent that was strongly pushing for all the Scouts in the troop to attend the service of the church that is our sponsor (we have a good, but not strong relationship), which happens to be of the same denomination he is in. He even insinuated that the Scouts weren't following the Scout Law if they didn't attend Scout Sunday with the troop. I encouraged the Scouts in the troop to attend Scout Sunday services at their own place of worship and several did in their uniforms.

 

The Scouts in my troop don't care what religion or denomination each other belongs to. They don't see each other as the "Jewish kid" or the "Mormon kid". They just see each other as their troop mates and respect the beliefs of others. There are a lot of parents these days that felt oppressed by religion as youths 20-30 years ago and now counteract it by trying to have their kids avoid all religions. They are afraid that if their kids are exposed to any type of formal religion, they will become like the religious fanatics they encountered as youth.

 

I went to a Catholic Mass while out camping with my troop one year as a youth (seven of the nine Scouts on the campout, plus the adults, were Catholic). The adults told myself and the other non-Catholic Scout that we needed to go with them, but it was our option whether or not to participate when they gave the offerings. We both stayed in the pews during the offerings and basically just sat quietly and observed the service. I had never been to a Catholic Mass before, so it was interesting to see. Not at any point did I feel like I was being "forced" to convert or anything else of that nature.

 

When it comes to services at camp, there are three types: denominational, non-denominational, and ecumenical (?). The denominational would be for a particular denomination and feature the traditions of that faith. The non-demoninational doesn't feature the traditions of a particular denomination, but rather traditions common to all Christians (or Jews or Muslims). The ecumenical talks about good values and maybe a higher being, but it tends to stay pretty general (many Scout ones focus on the Scout Oath and Law, since those shouldn't offend any members and are very inclusive).

[smaster101]

Dear jmcquillan: Well put. I'm going to reflect on your comments and use them as I continue discussion with these parents. Thanks for your input.

 

[Quixote]

The Oath and Law are fairly clear:

 

Duty to God

 

Reverent

 

If you do not have any kind of religous aspect to your program or if you just pay lip service to the Oath and Law then you are not delivering the program. Every scout has a Duty to God and is supposed to be Reverent towards God. I'm sure that you emphasize the other points of the Law - Every patrol Cleans their patrol box (some better than others obviously). We don't allow habitial liars to stay in scouts do we? If we encourage other points in the law and leave out Reverent we are not following the Law. Similarly if we do not show our Duty to God, we are not following the Oath.

 

You should be just as supportive and encouraging of these points as all the others - they are what scouting is about - camping and having fun in the outdoors is just the vehicle we use to instill these VALUES.

 

JMHO

 

Quixote

[Weekender]

In our troop we have a mix of Catholic and Protestant youth. Heavier on the Protestant side. We do a non-denominational Christian service. We just added 8 new boys to our roster and one of the first things I did was ask the adults about the religious affiliation of the boys and their families. If we had picked a jewish or muslim scout we would try to make arrangements for his religeous needs (whether that means changing our rutine or finding a service in the area we are camping). I personally think it is important for people to attend organized worship services of some type. But, I know that not everyone agrees with that. I would still want the boy involved in some form of active worship time while the others were at services. What this time would consist of would have to be coordinated with the boys parent.

[Weekender]

Actually we would change our "routine". Gosh darn editer!

[Abraiu]

In my Wood Badge course we would have a time to reflect every day. We would reflect or hold silent meditation. Our Scoutmaster would have a few words to inhance our reflection with words that allowed us to see the world as it is and to remember that there is something that made everything. We held vespers on Sunday one story comes to mind...a story of choosing...which would reflect how we saw ourselves. So are religious services optional? Only if we decide that life is an option.

[Chippewa29]

Quixote-

 

Just because a Scout does not attend church on a regular basis or outwardly express their faith does not mean they are not doing their duty to God or not being reverent. Duty to God is a very broad term that can be interpreted in thousands of different ways. As has been discussed before in other threads, which kind of Scout would you rather have in your troop: a Scout that says the right things and goes to religious services on a regular basis but isn't really a good person in daily life OR a Scout that exemplifies all the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in their daily life but doesn't attend church or outwardly express his faith in any way?

 

Being reverent for a Scout is being faithful in his religious beliefs (whatever they may be) and being respectful of the beliefs (or non-beliefs, what is chosen) of other people. A lot of great kids have come through the Scouts over the years that weren't what you would call religious, but exhibited many or most of the great qualities our society would call a "good Christian" in their daily lives. Is that going to hurt anyone?

[Quixote]

Chippewa,

 

Where did i say a scout had to attend religous services in order to satisfy their Duty to God as outlined in the Oath and Reverent as outlined in the Law?

 

What i said was that if you are not focused on ALL 12 points of the Law and the ENTIRE Oath then you are shortchanging the boys IMHO.

 

I also said that i believe that religous services at camp or wherever should NOT be mandatory and that their duty to God and Reverence could be accomplished in other ways such as reading spiritual materials (bible, koran, etc.) or simply sitting by the lake and marveling at Gods creations.

 

I grant that it is a tricky area because of todays culture and the subject matter, but you're trying to teach character.

 

As for your question of which scout i would rather have in my Troop? BOTH - there's room for improvement in each. BTW, I like to think i was the 2nd scout in your equation when i was younger.

 

YIS

Quixote