Program below Tiger

[BOYSOFMINE]

I supose we are fortunate. We are all from the same small catholic school and parish and all have known each other since our kids were in preschool together. As I said parents and siblings are with the scouts at all meetings and we run our meetings in a family format. I look at these meetings as a chance for us to enhance our family time and that the core values are taught to the family not just the scouts. Sometimes our meetings are loud but we have a great time together. I am also lucky in that this year I am also the teachers aide for our 1st and 2nd grade classes so I get to know the kids that much better.

It does take quite a bit of time for me to prepare for meetings but it is worth it.

In regards to the educational aspect of preschool and kindergarden. Maybe we are not as far ahead as other countries but in this country preschool and all day kindergardens exist for two reasons. 1. for working parents who need daycare. 2. and most importantly to teach our children.Kids these days need to know much more than we ever did. Did you have computer classes in kindergarden... Proficiency testing is a major undertaking in the educational system in the US.I do not agree with it but we have no other choice. So by including all ages (siblings) and all families I believe that scouting is giving us something that the 21st century is taking away, family time. My boys are not spending their time overscheduled with extra curicular activities, but I know that time is coming, so for now if I have parents that want to include the younger children in the family I will do my best to accomodate them. All things are taught based on age so why not teach 4 and 5 year olds as we do the 6 and 7.I have found them to be just as abled as the 6 and 7 and in many cases just as eager to be included and learn.

Okay I will get off my soap box now. Anyone willing to babysit my 4 year old so I can teach core family values just to the tigers call me.LOL! boysofmine

[BOYSOFMINE]

By the way, I have 6 tigers that have completed their Light of Christ, Yeah Tigers!( I did not teach it)

We also have the largest group of boys going into the boy scouts again this year.

boysofmine

[acco40]

1) Working parents need daycare.

 

News flash - maybe the kids need their parents more instead of money. I don't need (or necessarily want) a cellular phone, cable TV, DSL, satellite dish, health club membership, season tickets, microwave oven, and on and on with the "necessities" of life these days.

 

Our children want our time, not our money.

 

2) Kids have more to learn these days.

 

I always laugh when I hear that. What most kids need to learn today is how to socialize with each other without adult supervision and/or presence. Children need to know DIFFERENT things today, not necessarily more. My daughter could navigate around a computer at the age of four but as a bright eight year old she has no clue about hop scotch, stickball, milking a cow, sewing, etc.

 

I have three children. What I like about Scouting is that it forces me to interact with my children one on one. Not as a group of three. In my den, I had a rule of no siblings (with slight accomodations for single parents).

 

To each his own I guess.

[sctmom]

Acco40, I have a newsflash for you....My child does NEED a house to live in. Even when I was married, it took 2 salaries to have a house in a reasonable neighborhood, 2 cars that ran, medical insurance, and food. I live off my salary now that I am single. Luckily my salary went up about time I got divorced. I had to work when I was married because my hubby didn't seem able to keep a job more than 2 years in a row. I still live in a neighborhood that is below my co-worker's standards of "nice". My microwave oven is 13 years old, my cable tv is about the extent of our "entertainment", my cell phone sure comes in handy when someone needs to reach me because my child is sick or hurt, and the company I work for pays for my DSL. So, before you criticize every working woman how about taking into consideration it is not always about life styles.

 

I'll get off MY soapbox now. Yes, you did hit a nerve!

 

Back to the issue of younger kids in Scouting. Our pack does everything family oriented. The little ones don't necessarily do the exact same thing as the Cubs during den meetings but they are included. We want parents to stay for meetings. Pack meeting games are always chosen with the younger siblings in mind. I only have one child but one of the best things I like about our pack is practically everything is for the whole family. Who the heck can afford a babysitter? Then who can FIND a babysitter.

 

[BOYSOFMINE]

I didn't mean to hit anyone's nerve and to each their own please.

 

I have been a stay at home mom for 8 years. I went back to work this year 2 hours a day so that my husband could complete his paramedic training and study on his off days. Now that the house is empty of the kids I babysat I would give anything to be at home but if you knew how little firefighters are paid for the first 5 years my working is a neccessity until training is complete.

This also allows us to be a family in all senses of the word and our scout group is the same way. Most of us don't have cable or any of the extras. Heck I drive an older 15 passenger van. now that all the car seats are gone the scouts fill it up. The gas prices are killing me! But have bus will travel!

 

Please know that we each give of ourselves to our groups and that each of us are unique. Scouting is what I think is keeping families together and each den is as diverse as the families that fill it.

I am quite sure that we can be all proud of what we do for our scouts as I sure that I am proud to be married to a humble but special hero, my firefighter. Boysofmine

[sctmom]

BOYSOFMINE, you did not hit my nerve, acco40 did.

I admire people like you. One of our den leaders has 3 kids and her husband is a firefighter. She has her hands full staying at home and having her husband work different shifts. She volunteers with the pack, the school, and the church. Also, the boys play soccer and football (the ones that are old enough). I'm not sure I could do what she does. We each have our own talents.

 

[acco40]

sctmom, Pack meetings should be set up for families, parents, scouts, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, ... Den meetings should not. Although "family oriented", the den meeting should involve a scout and his parent(s) and not siblings (unless in the same den).

 

I have nothing at all against working (for pay outside the home) mothers. My only gripe is that the children should come first for all parents. Just to strike another politically hot nerve, women are lucky, society generally gives their approval to women who work outside the home or to those who stay at home. For men, society still takes a rather dim view of "stay at home" dads. When I hear women say they have fewer choices I just chuckle.

 

Anyway, I think having a "below Tiger" program would be a big big mistake.

[Sdriddle]

I attended Pow Wow last fall put on by Circle 10 council (Scout Central). During lunch they had a Q and A session and one was whether they were considering a program for Kindergarteners. The answer from the big boys was that it had been reviewed and there is no plan at this time to implement a program for them. They also said that there was no plan to put the Tigers in blue shirts.

 

Sheila

[fotoscout]

Kindergarten age boys are not same as kindergarten age girls. Just ask any day care provider or teacher. To compare the viability of the Girl Scout Daisy program with any BSA program for that age group is simply a bad thing to do. I would argue that making any comparison between Wolves and Bears, and the equivalent Girl Scout Program is also a bad thing to do. Boys behave differently than Girls, especially in a group setting. Given the one hour a week (or every other week) that you might set aside for a den meeting I doubt that any real learning could happen with a group of per Tiger aged boys. If you had enough meetings you might be able to invoke some conditioned responses, but as for real learning, I doubt it.

 

As for siblings, like the rest of you I have some that come to our den meetings. They are welcome and I always ask if they want to join in, BUT, I dont encourage them. Why you might ask?? I have a limited amount of money to work with. That money is intended for the boys in my den. When I go out to buy materials I dont plan for extra participants. We also have a limited amount of time. If I spend time with one of the siblings, then there is that much less time to spend with my boys.

 

Oh yeah, one last thing. Always remember, BSA does not stand for Baby Sitters of America.

[BOYSOFMINE]

I am amazed that so many think that what I do is babysit. Yes the tigers are a rambuncous group but my boys learn. Kids are amazing little machines. They soak up anything you are willing to teach them. It all comes down to how much effort you put into it. My den's projects are funded totally out of my pocket (except for derby cars, those are provided by the pack, no I am not wealthy. I scrape and save everything to do this. We do not charge den fees. When needed the parents chip in with whatever is needed.

The siblings are not a hardship. The Tiger den is and should be a family meeting. I would rather have a couple of extra siblings than lose a couple of boys. Besides the siblings (those that are boys) are excited and ready to become a tiger as soon as they are allowed to join.

Maybe it's just me but we went from only having 2 boys in tigers 2 years ago to having 9 then this year 12. I must be doing something right. I am not trying to irritate anyone, just putting in my 2 cents.

[sctmom]

Boysofmine,

I think what you are doing is great. Cub Scouting is about family. You are putting the children first and that is important. Sounds like the families are blessed to have you as the Tiger leader.

 

Keep up the good work.