Siblings at week long Summer Camp...

[5yearscouter]

This may end up partly a vent

about registered scout family bringing a webelos scout age son to a week of summer camp with the troop and how that impacted the boys in the troop--since sibling needed someone to be his buddy for the week[and parents didn't act as his buddy] so he kept pulling boys away from merit badges to go buy snacks at the trading post. argh

 

But my goal of this post is to gain information from other troop's policy and experience, BSA policy[GSS etc], quotes [cub scout leader book, age appropriate activities list], insurance coverage(or not), etc. to help the troop make an official policy about siblings attending summer camp with the troop. The policy will also need to address when siblings are allowed on "family camps". And decide if there needs to be any variation in policy depending on gender, age, and if the sibling is registered as a cub scout or not.

 

so what info can you give me to help get all the adults on the same page in this? I know there will be hurt feelings, that's the dynamics of some of the parents--including the CC who sees no reason he couldn't bring his daughter to boy scout camp for the week either...

(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

[shortridge]

There is a simple policy: No.

 

Cub camp is for Cubs. Boy Scout camp is for Boy Scouts. Family camping is not part of the Boy Scout program. End of discussion. You don't need BSA literature to back you up. Just go with what's best for the boys in the troop.

 

Frankly, I'm very surprised the camp allowed the younger brother to attend at all.

[5yearscouter]

A call to council camp director ahead of time he said no siblings, not even if they are webelos.

 

however, they brought him up anyway (driving up separately from the rest of the trop) and paid $100 for him to go(the fee per adult to pay for food after the first 2 adults). SM and CC had no issue with it, since over the years they've seen "a few" siblings at summer camp at that location so it must be ok.

 

yes, that means SM and CC are at odds with some of committee, old SM's, most exisitng ASM's and COR. I imagine this will blow up at next leader meeting, and I'd like to have you guy's take on this a bit. Scouter forums usually helps me see all sides better in these kinds of situations.(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

[SeattlePioneer]

I agree with Shortridge.

 

Never heard of that one before.

 

I would certainly encourage a Webelos Den to consider attending a Cub Scout Resident Camp together as a den.

 

Around here the Cub Scout Resident Camp is three nights and four days of camping. That sounds about right for most Webelos.

 

 

Just out of curiosity, did issues tend to multiply after four days and three nights?

 

 

My experience with Boy Scout Camp is that interpersonal issues do tend to multiply late in the week. Issues that boys can contain for a few days tend to get worse or explode into problems late in the week.

 

That would support my bias that Webelos are too young for Boy Scout camp, by and large. Also, Boy Scout Camp should be a fresh experience for new Boy Scouts. If they have already had that experience, they will probably get bored with it earlier.

 

 

In my district we offer a Tiger Cub Camp for new Tiger Cubs for two evenings and a Friday afternoon with the older Cubs.

 

Wolves and Bears can then experience Cub Scout Daycamp and have a suitable experience.

 

My bias would be to send Webelos I & II to the council Cub Scout Resident Camp, again providing a fresh and age appropriate experience.

 

Then --- Boy Scout Camp for Boy Scouts!

 

 

That would be my preference and bias.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[Tampa Turtle]

I am surprised this happened as well. I have heard of large camps occasionally running a group of girls and younger kids in a variety of activities but never having cubbies or "scout buddies" away with a Troop.

 

It is not like there is a shortage of non-scout summer camps available these days--at least around here.

 

I do not think this was a good idea at all. If the family brought 'em up there it is their responsibility.

[Eagledad]

I have never seen it either. The parents who wanted to bring siblings in our troop stayed a public camp down the road.

 

Barry

[momof2cubs]

The heck...???? Seriously, I'm at a loss for words.

 

I'm VERY surprised camp allowed a younger sibling to attend. And what did he do the whole week? Obviously he can't attend merit badge classes or any high adventure thing, or take the new scout classes, so what did he do besides bug the heck out of the scouts that paid good money to attend and get the most out of the experience???

 

Personally, I would have been LIVID if I found out that my son was being pulled out of his activities to baby sit a younger kid. Specially considering what I had to pay for him attend!

[SeattlePioneer]

I wonder what the parents did with their week once they had dropped both kids off at Scout Camp?

[Brewmeister]

Good grief. Totally rude and inconsiderate.

 

At a more fundamental I don't understand parents wanting to go with their sons to summer camp at all, let alone bring the family. If you want to have the family together go to a campground with your family.

 

Bizarre.

[Basementdweller]

The camp we attend has a no sibs or tag along policy. Period

 

 

So let me get this right, mom and dad both go to Resident camp with scout son????

 

So how many adults attend? and is there a reason that more than three would go???

[momof2cubs]

Brewmister: I understand, but some may not have a choice. After all SOME adult has to go to camp with the boys and I don't know many non-dads that are scout leaders. I know there are LOTS, I just think most are scout leaders because their sons are scouts.

 

SP: the way I read the post, i assumed that mom and dad were at camp too?

[5yearscouter]

Let's see 31 scouts attended camp.

and there were too many adults--8 I think it was. There are always too many adults when they go to this particular camp but less adults than the last year they went there, since they raised cost from $75 per adult to $100. I think camp should charge even more money.

 

so SM, 2 ASMs, 1 committee who pulled the troop trailer up and home (should have stopped there IMHO,

plus CC and 3 other committee. Total of 8 adults.

 

they needed more than that to transport everyone(not enough vans and SM couldn't drive at all due to recent surgery). many parents voluntarily carpooled kids up to camp (3 hours) and then went home, so most of the committee that stayed at camp should have done the same and gone home after dropping off the scouts.

 

The family that brought up the sibling, are ASM, committee and boy scout (been in the troop 1 year) and sibling that just becamse a webelos on june 1st. They were told by the SM that they had to watch the sibling and be his buddy but scouts tell story that he was in merit badge classes (like leatherworking and pottery) making stuff and then trying to get boys to go to the trading post.

 

Right now the discussion in committee/other families is if they could do it with their webelo, then I should be able to do it with my webelo next summer--and we have a lot of families that have both cubs and boy scouts. Oh and if the CC says it's ok to take his daughter I'll take my daughter too! so this is going to have to be addressed and faced or summer camp is going to end up with a boatload of little ones running around.

 

(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

[Nike]

If the CC and SM aren't going to follow camp rules, and the CD wasn't enforcing rules...

 

This has to be nipped in the bud, or you will have a heck of a mess soon. If you lose the family, so be it.

 

And, I would personally complain to the CD and the Council on my own behalf.

[infoscouter]

From the Guide to Safe Scouting:

 

"If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers."

 

Our council solves this issue this way:

 

http://www.camptomahawk.org/programs/family

http://www.manypoint.org/content/family-camp

[Scoutfish]

Totally unacceptable.

 

If for some reason, this was due to extreme circumstances such as one parent was a leader and other was military stationed away or off on duty - then the parent leader themself shopuld have be the sole responcible buddy for the Webelos scout.

 

If the SM and ASM were fine with Webelos scout at camp, then they should have accepted any and all buddy duty instead of screwing any other scout out of their camp experience.

 

Personally, that leader should have just stayed how with the Webelos scout . Again, I can understand the exception if the leadership was needed based on the number of BOY SCOUT attending camp.

 

 

So...when the next SM conference or BoR come around and they ask a scout about his progress ( or lack of) will he be willing to say that the CUB SCOUT at a BOY SCOUT summer camp caused many boys to get partials or missout due to having to buddy up?

 

And when they ask the scout how he demonstrated scout spirit in hie every day life by following the scout law and oath...can he in turn around and ask the ASM and SM the same question?