"Medical Marijuana" @ Scout Camp

[Beavah]

Suppose someone with one of these authorizations decided he needed his dose of medication during the evening campfire?

 

Then I reckon he or she would walk away from da campfire and go take the medication. Not much different from what we allow for cigarette smokers. Aside from asthma inhalers and those of us addicted to caffeine, we mostly don't medicate in public.

 

Like I said, these laws are a mess and ripe for abuse. I disagree with 'em. At the same time, there's lots of youth and adult medication that I feel is overused, eh? Everything from da Rx stimulants we hand out like candy to kids who are more active than average, to adults on various forms of mood-altering cocktails. Much as I have my own opinion on such things, who am I to judge? I'm not the person's physician.

 

Vol_scouter is a physician and claims there's no valid medical reason to smoke da herb instead of takin' the marinol pill. At da same time, AMA and ACP have both called for more studies on the issue and some nurses and hospice associations have come out in support of medical MJ use. So it's not settled science at da moment.

 

When in doubt, my view is to follow the law while the experts and researchers work things out. Since da feds have made it clear that they are honoring states' rights in terms of how they handle enforcement in states with medical marijuana laws, and since most camps are licensed by states and presumably bound by da state health codes as licensed entities, I reckon camps should find responsible mechanisms for handling medical MJ use, same as for Ritalin or anti-psychotics or prescribed narcotics.

 

Beavah

 

[Adam S]

I am guessing the reason BSA is taking this position is threefold:

 

1. Marijuana remains illegal on the federal level, federal law trumps all others!

1a. None of the states or cities which have legalized marijuana have a common standard.

2. As it does not exist in the United States Pharmacopeia There is no published standard of dosage.

3. Unlike other drugs or methods of delivery it is easy to get "second hand medicated"

 

I would also guess that the close relationship BSA has with the larger Christian establishments also does not predispose them to being friendly to Marijuana.

 

Some one had stated they do not understand why it cannot be administered via pill. The fact of the matter is the method of delivery does have an effect on the results. Some meds are IV, some are topical, some inhled (like bronchodialators used by ashtmatics or the less then pleasant suppository...)

 

As to would BSA get away with it, I think so. Why?

Well they are a national organization following a Federal law.

They are a private club, the use of Marijuana has historicaly been anathema to people who are "mentally awake"

 

Does it make it right? I dunno, Marijuana does have documented theraputic value BUT until Science and Government can agree BSA made a safe decision.

[nldscout]

Medical Marijuana is a crock of crap. Its nothing but a way to back door an illegal drug.

 

Look at the people that use it, doper, druggies, scuzbuckets and lowlifes. It has no place in scouting.

[Scoutfish]

Wether med Mj halps or not is not my concern. Truth e told, it may help somebody with real pain even if it's only because they are too stoned out of their mind to notice the pain.

 

Thing is, Valium is a legit medical use prescription item too. But I would not allow my leaders to be under the influence of it during scout activities.

 

If rthey have a prescription to take it at night when they go to bed...probably not a problem.

 

If they need to take it during the middle of the day while they also happen to be leading/ conducting an activity - then It's time they step back and let the Assistant or another leader take over

 

 

There are many, many legit medcines that have restrictions.

 

Pop a couple prescription pills, jump in your car and cause a wreck. When you go to court ( or jail) you can flash that prescriptiuon, the Dr's buisness card and a copy of state and federal laws all you want...it's not going to help.

 

Why? Because there are still standards and expectations to be met while you have a prescription - wether real of faux.

 

The worst thing that you would have to do is alow the youth /leader to go, but you could tell them they have to stay at the med officers office/ first aid center/ whatever you call it...until the effects of the meds are negotiable.

 

If this means they will spend the entire event there..tell them it's either that or stay home.

 

Their choice!

 

Why? Because a prescription is not more valuable than the safety of others!

[IM_Kathy]

BSA has so far (as stated) solved the medical marijuana issue.

 

what's got me posting is the talk about valium which is a benzodiazpan... I, myself, am on a benzo medication. When taking these types of medications as they are prescribed (time and dosage) you do NOT get stoned off of them. They do what they are suppose to do. A lot of benzo's are prescribed for an anxiety disorder or the like... which is why I am on mine. Trust me, you'd rather have me around when I'm on them then off of them - heck you don't usually see me out of the house if I'm not on my medication. So a blanket statement that if someone is on X,Y, or Z medication they should not be working as a leader tells me that you don't know what the heck you are talking about.

 

Sure, if someone has gotten a hold of a lot of medications and taking them not as prescribed or isn't actually prescribed them, then yes there is an issue. It could be a drug addiction, and if abusing medication then the person should not be allowed to lead a group of kids.

 

And yes, every time I attend summer camp I'm questioned by camp staff about my medication, and my doctors note of of diagnosis of PTSD with anxiety. Biggest question is what can I do and what can't I do... best answer is the other adults in our troop already know and we have everything covered. And then when they ask about my sleep med I let them know I do not take it if it's going to storm over night because I already know it's not a good idea to be in a ravene during a major storm on that stuff, plus then I'm very easy to wake up (if I even fell asleep) to be listening for storm signals to get everyone up. The only real thing I need that is "special" is a table with back against the wall in the dining hall. The other leaders go to the all camp campfires and I chill out at our campsite. I avoid the pool during open swim.

 

But with all of that I would have more adults and boys complain if I didn't go to summer camp than if I told them I couldn't. Our boys that went to Philmont were upset when I told them I wasn't allowed to go because they don't allow anxiety disorders on high adventure trips. If they didn't have that rule I would've done my best to cut the weight to be able to go... oh well.

[Scoutfish]

IM_Kathy,

 

My use of the word Valium was in fact, a random stab in the dark. We did have a leader at one time who had a legitimate prescription for valium because of anxiety issues when it came to being around big crowds.

 

Well, it was understod to be legit and it was proven that her name was on the bottle. I do not have an issue with that, but we did have to keep occasionally ask mom to step back from the campfire and let her know her kids needed to step back too.

 

We had one ADL show up at a meeting while taking codiene pills after having 3 wisdom teeth cut out. The man wasn't falling on his face drunk, but I can tell you his mouth was NOT bothering him at all. He was not in pain. Matter of fact, he was feeling pretty good.

 

Again, no issue with him having prescription, but we had our treasurer drive him home and our COR picked her up from his house to bring her back.

 

My point is this: I have no issie with legit prescriptions.

 

But just like the warnings on the bottle say: Do not drive, Do operate heavy machinery, Do not try to lead scouts while taking this medication!!

 

 

 

If there was such a thing as a legit Medical marijuanna prescription in NCm, and one of my leaders was legitimately holding a prescription for a legit pain or illness...then I do not have an issue with it.

 

But in NC, it is also completely and totally legal to drink beer and alcohol, and smoke cigarettes......but we do not allow it at scout meetings and functions.

 

Keep it legal, keep it at home, keep it away from the scouts and I'm cool with it!

[Beavah]

Yah, all this shows are da dangers of trying to second guess physicians as amateurs, and of not trusting fellow scouters. Best not to do it over any scrip, which is a health and medical necessity not an optional beverage. There are just too many variables and privacy traps, eh? Dosage, individual tolerance and other stuff all come into play.

 

And no, federal law does not always "trump" state law. It's complicated. In this case, though, the Feds have made it clear they are not taking enforcement action in medical MJ cases. Da Feds can't do anything if the state chooses not to renew a camp's license to operate in da state. ADA may not apply, but similar state laws might, and we can go on and on about other scenarios like preventing a boy's dad on chemotherapy from attending what may be his last summer camp with his son.

 

These laws are a mess and created problems for everyone, eh? But this is not a decision to be made by amateurs or folks sittin' in offices in far away states. Yeh need responsible local folks assisted by knowledgeable local counsel to make intelligent individual decisions.

 

B

[Federalist]

 

I believe that BSA is being prudent and wise with their decision to follow the Federal law since BSA is a national and PRIVATE organization. It is unrealistic for BSA to form policy around EVERY local law in the United States.

 

I am very familiar with this "medical marijuana" issue and I can say from experience that:

- It is a ruse to get high

- It is an unproven theory

- It is not a legitimate prescription

- If your problems are so bad you need to smoke dope around families and children then maybe you should stay home. NO APOLOGIES FOR ANY SOB STORY! (Yes, I will have that conversation with anybody)

 

How has our society gotten so off track that even scouters appear to defend the use of "medical marijuana" or are afraid to be judgemental on this serious issue. I hope the leaders for my son will have the sense and intestinal fortitude to make hard moral judgements and safe decisions for his safety and others. I know I will....................

 

[Basementdweller]

Well I have had to deal with MJ usage by an adult at camp. It was not a medical MJ issue but a parent smoking a blunt in the smoking area. I smelled it knew what it was an asked him to leave.

 

I will follow the guide to safe scouting.

 

Far as other meds go....there are a lot out there that are far worse than mj, not advocating or criticizing.

 

How many people shop doctors to get a treatment the way they want? I did with my knee surgery last winter, but it was basis on recommendations from others and insurance coverage. Same works for those who NEED or DESIRE pain meds.

 

We have a couple pain pill mills in our neighborhoods, they close them down only for them to reopen with new foreign doctors.....it takes nearly a year for the authorities to close them again for them only to reopen.....We have visitors from three states away seeing them.

 

I am going to bet each and everyone here would be surprise to know they probably know one or more people with addiction problems. Many people self medicate, exercise, food, caffeine, alcohol, and medication, legal or other.

 

It is pretty easy to get all righteous on the internet about it till you actually have to deal with it. Then the lines blur.

[Federalist]

 

Staying on the issue of "Medical Marijuana" and scouting and not pills, alcohol, ect., I hope those lines are not so blurry when faced with the situation.

 

 

[shortridge]

Federalist,

 

Scouters are not some monolithic group that all march in lockstep, united on all issues.

 

Perhaps some who appear to be "afraid to be judgemental" have family members or friends for whom medical marijuana use has helped. Don't be so quick to fly off the handle.

[Beavah]

Yah, Federalist, welcome to da forums!

 

I haven't seen anybody here support da notion of smokin' pot around kids, or even take a side strongly supportin' the medical marijuana laws. Maybe I missed somethin'.

 

I think what we have is da prospect of camp staff and volunteers having to deal with a very complex issue that involves privacy issues and the law of the state, one where there are conflicts between medical professionals and laws and people of good will. We generally tell scouts that it's a duty to obey the law, eh? And to respect others' privacy, and help others and such. And that it's a duty to keep Clean from improper use of drugs. I'd say recreational use, but we allow recreational use of some drugs as a society, even by children.

 

These are all very hard things to negotiate. Remember, scout camps are not just private entities, eh? They are, in most states, state-licensed child care facilities. They cannot operate without approval from the state, which includes compliance with state law and regulation.

 

I'm an old conservative, states-rights sort of fellow. Medical licensing, medical protocols and such are state- and community- based, not federal. And we have to face da fact that the medical bodies are lookin' at MJ more closely, marinol has been reclassified as Schedule II, and the DEA is considering a petition to move MJ to the same level. Nurses groups have supported medical marijuana use, and I personally have a lot of respect for nurses. They know their patient care, better than many docs.

 

So despite my aversion to how ill-considered, poorly implemented, and just plain dumb most of the medical marijuana laws are, and how they seem to be wide-open as a means of providing recreational pot for at least college-aged adults, that's a legal and enforcement problem. It doesn't change da fact that this is just a booby trap for scouters, and one that they'd best approach not by quotin' some G2SS text but by talkin' seriously with their Chartered Org., their SE, and very competent local legal counsel.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Federalist]

 

Hello Shortridge,

 

My father used "medical marijuana" for his MS before he died, but never around his family and especially never around any scouting event. That is what we are talking about, right? Whether "Medical Marijuana" should be used during a scouting event? I am still trying to stay on topic..............

 

Hi Beavah,

 

Again, the topic revolved around allowing someone with a "Medical Marijuana Prescription" to smoke at and or during a scouting event. We are not talking about what someone does at home or some other prescribed narcotic. I am a very big states rights guy, but I also recognize the danger of this false notion that just because it is "legal" locally that it should be OK at a scouting event. Your writing implies to me that you may allow another scouter to "legally" smoke "Prescribed Medical Marijuana" at a scouting event. I am very happy the G2SS CLEARLY bans it at scouting events regardless of what a local law says. That line is very clear to me.

 

I think this forum is an excellent way to work through issues, but a lot is lost in translation when writing. I come across as very harsh and I am not. I am sure we could sit across from each other and have this same conversation and leave as friends, but I do know what I am talking about and I am very qualified to speak on this issue.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

My take in this is a bit different.

 

I am not gonna argue wether it's a hokey medicine or legit.

 

It it's legal, then it's legal. If it's not, then it's not.

 

Of course, right now NC doesn't have legal medical marijuanna laws.

 

But if they did, I'd still look at it from the "in use" perspective:

 

Alcohol is legal in my state. but you had better not have it at a scout camp or during any scout function. Legal or not!

 

All the codiene and oxy-got to stop hurting drugs are legal too. As well as percocet and vicatin drugs.

 

After my surgery, I was given about 4 prescriptions for drugs I never filled that were all perfectly legal......but had restrictions on operating machinery, driving, and warnings about drowsyness, too liberated a tongue, etc...

 

My point is if a mom, dad, leader. or scout - which is the least likely to be there under those circumstances - is using the one or all of these items....then they need to be aware they will have the same restrictions places on them.

 

The one place that marijuanna is different is this: smoke will drift and can affect others directly. I never heard of somebody succumbing to secone hand beer or second hand percocet .

 

Never heard mention to the effects of second hand Hydrocodien or Daltin exposure.

 

I suppose in a scout or adult insisted on being at camp, etc.I woul;d say okay, but you nbare confined to your tent the entire time you are using or under the effect of said prescription.

 

Point is, I am not arguing wether medical marijuanna should be legal or not. I do know some people who had cancer who did a whole let better when they smoked it. ALOT better.

 

But I would not let them drive or be at my camp even knowing it benefitted them because of their mental state during that time.

 

I do know that every person is different from a medical and anatomic make up.

 

Me? I had a radical Right Side Neck Dissection almost 2 years ago where I had my Sternocleidomastoid Muscle taken out, 19 Lymph nodes Removed, and lost about 2 inches of my Spinal accessory Nerve. I went home from the hospital the next day with two drain tubes coming out of my neck and never filled 4 prescriptions for all those great drugs including Dalatin ...which is supposed to be 10 times stronger than Morphine.

 

My wife donated a Kidney to her mom and was in agony for a week before the pain was managable.

 

I knew a woman who would faint just from bumping her funny bone.

 

What I am saying is that I am not arguing t wether med marijuanna is legit for helping. Every person is different and their tolerances are different. Just like some people being allergic to some meds while others are not.

 

 

My whole concern and all my issues are about the mental state of a person on any drug or substance that can not only affect their mental state...but also affect the physical well being of others.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

You guys are completely ridiculous and have your head in the sand. there are far more worse prescription drugs than MJ that are available and much more addicting.

 

Vicodin, Oxycontin, Demeral, Percocet, Darvocet, Xanax, Dilaudid, Ritlin and amphetamines. The first 8 are worse than MJ for sure. All are perfectly legal and your parents and leaders are taking them now.

 

Best of all, these are all able to be used during a scout event with a prescription, which is easily gotten from a pill mill.

 

Addiction is human condition whether the drug is prescribed or a street drug.

 

What about the Bath salt thing now?????