Basementdweller Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Just got back from summer camp at new camp for the troop. It seems this camp allows Golf carts and gators to be run on camp grounds by Troop Adults. I was astonished....... Again, this is a first for me. Never in my life had I seen anyone but the Camp ranger, Camp director or Program director using them anywhere else. I will say there were some very elderly scouters being shuttled around, I have absolutely no problem with them being shuttled as they truly appeared very frail. I asked about the scouter and their service because everyone seemed to know and respect them......I was not disappointed and both had over 60 years of tenure in scouting. I spent a wonderful morning chatting with one of them. Then there was another troop that had a fleet of golf carts to shuttle around their scouters and scouts.......They,the entire troop, pulled up to the dinning hall for dinner the first night and I simply could not believe it. Well they raced around camp all week and were told at the SM meetings every morning to slow down or else. I simply didn't like it.... Just curious, So what is your summer camps policies regarding golf carts and gators????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 The overall rule that should apply is national camp standard M-52. The relevant portion: All motor vehicles, including all-terrain vehicles (ATVs), utility terrain vehicles (UTVs), recreational off-highway ehicles (ROHVs), golf carts, and farm equipment, used by the camp are kept in safe mechanical order and operated in a safe and legal manner. ... Golf carts may be used to transport disabled or other individuals only while they are seated on seats that are standard equipment of the vehicle. The maximum speed is 10 mph. Safety belts should be worn if the vehicle comes from the manufacturer equipped with them. What you describe would astonish me, too, and I would be complaining up and down to the Scoutmaster, the PD and the CD. That seems incredibly unsafe, not to mention utterly unecessary. My camp now uses "gators" - small utility vehicles - to transport water coolers and supplies to program areas and campsites. When I worked on staff, we had to haul the equipment out in handcarts. There's no real improvement in efficiency. Staff members still have to walk out to the program areas, so whether they're pulling a handcart or having their coolers delivered makes no difference. I have heard of some commissioners at other camps who deliver coffee every morning to campsites in golf carts. I don't understand this practice. Are Scouters too incompetent to make their own coffee these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Our camp has a couple gators for use by camp staffers with a need for hauling stuff, not to avoid walking. Of course there are also pickup trucks used for the same purpose. Units are allowed vehicles in campsite only with a permit which are issued only for special needs. One of our ASMs is getting up there (older than dirt beats being covered with dirt) and he was allowed to keep his vehicle in the campsite and drive around camp. He mostly walked with the rest of us but did drive a couple times when he needed to. Golf carts would be treated the same way. Frankly, if someone needs to get around, a golf cart would be less innocuous than a Ford F-250 crew cab. Maybe 3 or 4 four years ago, providing your SM a golf cart was the status symbol for the high-end troops. They went from one the first year to a handful the next, before the council established the policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I forgot to mention the same troop ran generators as well. Probably for the air conditioners in their tents. Again, I have no issue with elderly and disabled using them. The fuel was not stored properly, it was kept on the flat bed transport trailers unsecured. But is being Fat a disability????(This message has been edited by Basementdweller) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I'm guessing that if they'd offered Basement a ride up the hill once in a while we wouldn't be hearing this complaining..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Eagle Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Seems completely ridiculous, and the generator too. But if the camp doesn't have rules or reenforce them there's nothing you can do but complain or find another camp. At our recent camp I had a parent of a cub with a radio and I told them they couldn't use it. Got a funny look but I had the rules to back me up and I'm sticking to it. We're at camp to camp, not to recreate city life in canvas. If you need it due to age or disability otherwise, fine, otherwise NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nldscout Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 WE have only ever had 1 scouter allowed to use his UTV at camp, but he can't do that anymore seeing as NY state has outlawed UTV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Nice shot Seattle. Yes, we got tired of eating their dust. Especially right after leaving the shower house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papadaddy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 If the camp standard says "disabled or other individuals", that pretty much opens it up to anyone. The camp I attended for 30+ years doesn't allow them, AFAIK, except for those with a medical reason. WHat they do allow is the use of personal vehicles for adult staff to get from their cabins to program areas to the dining hall, etc. It was annoying having to get out of their way, and the dust issue was also annoying. UNit scouters are required to keep their vehicles in the parking lot, unless leaving camp. We did have a camp medic a few years ago who used one...but he was about 400 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I'm with Basementdweller. There was one troop who used them - I just found it annoying. It generates complaints, comments, dust, noise, walking obstacles, etc. It did not appear that the adults needed them. I have no problem with the disabled using them, but this troop used them regularly to get their adults to meals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Just because the camp standard says they can be used to transport anybody doesn't mean they should. I have known some camps where the program areas, dining hall and staff living quarters are so far apart that by the time a staffer walks back from the rifle range for lunch (for example), he has about 15 minutes to eat before he has to turn around and walk back again. So I could see the wisdom of having some sort of speedier motorized transport available for select staffers - but not everyone. Besides, last I checked, bicycles still worked just fine as a means of getting from Point A to Point B in an expeditious manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolesrule Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 "But is being Fat a disability????" The answer to that is that it depends on the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 "But is being Fat a disability????" Depends on how good your lawyer is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 "But is being Fat a disability????" Depends if it is cxaused by endocrine/thyroid or medical ( some medicines) or because you just shove too much food in your face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Depends if it is caused by [...] Actually, it should not depend on what caused it. Just as a broken leg would be a disability whether you did it on purpose or not, so would being overweight. It either interferes with your daily life or it doesn't. Besides, it is quite difficult to pinpoint causation here amongst a whole variety of factors. The message to the brain that you've eaten enough food can come from varying levels of ghrelin and leptin. The number of dopamine receptors in the striatum is associated with your body mass. The natural level of movement in your body burns off varying amounts of calories. Your cultural upbringing leads to all sorts of messages associated with food. Some causes may be easier than others to identify, but everyone has some "reason". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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