Summer Camp and t-2-1 programs

[Basementdweller]

Well the summer camp the Troop attends has a T-2-1 program. I am not real happy with the results of the program. The SM and ASM that went to camp came home all proud of the boys, everyone advanced one rank while at camp. Fantastic let the BOR commence.

 

The BOR's were ugly. Questions like have you used your personal first aid kit yet were met with I don't have one. Other questions like do you find the bowline easy to tie were met with equal cluelessness. Later the lack of actual skills were confirmed during a Troop meeting.

 

I asked a couple of the scouts about their first aid kit, it had been signed off at summer camp, and they said they all made a first aid kit and then the camp staff collected them at conclusion of the session. First off, they were supposed to take the first aid kit on a hike, second, Just don't sign off on the requirement if it isn't completed

 

This year we have talked about the first aid kits and the new scout patrol collected $5 from each scout and the PL is going to purchase the supplies to put them together at the next PL meeting.

 

As we approach summer camp again......I wonder at the Value of these programs and the quality of scout they turn out.

 

Or is my expectation too high??????

[perdidochas]

When my oldest went to summer camp last year, I was deeply disappointed in the T-2-1 program. My oldest hated it--too much "classroom." In addition, the requirement record keeping was terrible. We found that some things the boys were signed off on weren't done. We also found that some things not signed off on were done (and the scouts proved it to us). My youngest is going to a different T-2-1 program this year (different camp). I hope it's better. That said, I'm really not too impressed with the older scouts in our troop and their level of T-2-1 skills. We are working on them.

[IM_Kathy]

when we send boys to these classes they don't take their books - they come back to camp site and go over what they did... if it's a skill they can perform (knots etc...) then they perform it and then get signed off... if it's something else like (hike etc...) we ask them about it and based on their answers we know that they have completed it or not. The boys always go as pairs and often an adult will go along, but not always... so this is how we know that they have the skill done.

 

the one thing I like about our summer camp is that these are offered seperate from badge time, and we also have plenty of free time where the boys can go over these things at camp site.

[Oak Tree]

I've been very disappointed with the quality of these programs as well. I think we can do a much better job of it within the troop, so we generally cover the items in-house and discourage Scouts from signing up for these programs at camp.

 

This is also where you can get a lot of the troop operations drilled into the boys. How does your troop set up an axe-yard? Where is the rope, where is the axe? How do we cook meals? How do we do meal plans? The camps couldn't do this even if they were running a good program, and they aren't.

[allangr1024]

As scoutmaster, I thoughts on the t-2-1 programs are these: I am responsible for seeing that a scout has the instruction in all of the skills covered in the requirements. I may decide to teach these skills myself, or I may have our SPL or patrol leaders teach the younger scouts, or I may send the scouts to the summer camp classes. But when I sign off on a requirement, I myself, or an ASM, test the scout to see if he can do the skill. If not, then further training or practice is required. I do get a list of the skills taught for each day at camp.

 

I have learned that a boy in a class of 50 learning a clove hitch may or may not have learned the knot, but he will get credit with the camp councilors for it. The boy may tie the knot once in front of his councilor, but ten minutes later he will have forgotten it. If he does it for me later that week, he will have to freshen his memory of the skill.

 

I like the final stage of the EDGE method of learning: EMPOWER. To me this means that the scout must actually use the skill and make it a part of his personal skill set. For instance, if he shows me a taught line hitch, I will then send him to put up the dining fly and make sure the lines tied to the stakes are extra taught.

 

Bottom line, I will not shift the relegate the responsibility to a stranger.

 

[shortridge]

First, BSA calls it a "first-time camper program" - NOT a T-2-1 program. The focus should be in getting newbies exposed to camp and basic outdoor skills, NOT shoving them through the rank advancement process in a week. The only thing a FYC program should be doing is teaching through adventuring.

 

If your camp has a first-year camper program that has its staffers sign off on requirements - or if it explicitly calls it a T-2-1 program - RUN, do not walk, away quickly.

 

Here's what's supposed to happen with a by-the-book FYC program, according to the BSA's "Boy Scout Resident Camp: First-Time Camper Program." Observe that it's a two-way street. A troop should never be suprised by what's being offered.

 

>> "The key to the program's success is communication with Scoutmasters before troops arrive at camp."

 

>> "Throughout the week, the Scoutmaster should be encouraged to have a conference with each Scout and the staff on how the program is going."

 

>> "Could we really be proud of a program that teaches 30 requirements, but rushes through them and bores the Scouts? Of course not. ... Take the emphasis off getting the requirement initials in the handbook for the next rank and focus on why the skills are important to being a confident and capable camper."

 

====

 

To those of you with complaints, I'm curious: Did you check up on your Scouts' progress during the week, and did you see any red flags? What did the program director or camp director say when you approached him or her with your concerns about the quality of the program?

[skeptic]

Ours this year is supposed to try and only focus on traditional scout skills, while leaving stuff you can do indoors alone. That is a better approach I think. They noted precamp that they are going to try and have boys do a dinner for second class; it would take the place of that evening's dining hall meal. We do not have in camp cooking, as the fire danger is usually too high and so no open fires or charcoal are allowed; though using camp stoves can be done with proper arrangements.

[Basementdweller]

Shortridge......the camp calls it T-2-1 program.....and says that they will complete their tenderfoot on the first year with them......I was disappointed with my sons skills when he returned.....he could not tie the tauntline and two half hitches. Yet it was signed off.

 

I did not go to resident camp with the troop last year to give my son some time with out dad. I was told that the SM or ASM is with the soon to be tenderfoots and was signing off requirements.

 

he had all sorts of stuff signed off, that he did not retain the knowledge on.....same goes for the entire New scout patrol.....yet they had everything signed off on the tenderfoot.

 

 

So are my expectations too high????(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[SeattlePioneer]

Unfortunately, summer camp tends to set the standard for advancement.

 

I think this is partially a byproduct of National's interest in gettign boys to 1st class within a year after joining the program.

 

When I was Scoutmaster nearly thirty years ago, it was common for boys to take 2-3 years to complete First Class. We had a monthly camping program and both encouragement and instruction on requirements through First Class, but it was up to the boys to learn the skills. When they did, they were signed off.

 

In my opinion, the real Scouting standard is First Class, not Eagle. The promise of Scouting is to make boys competent at hiking and camping --- the First Class requirements.

 

In my book, Star, Life and Eagle are just polishing the skills boys should have learned by First Class ---although Eagle does add leadership skills and requirements.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

SP, I think you mis speak. First Class First Year is about a troop having activities scheduled so that an "active" scout will reach first class in a year. Its not about pushing scouts to first class. Now, some have done a hatchet job on the concept and say National wants the boys to rush through, wrong. They want the boys to know the skills and for the troops to give the boys opportunities to use those skills. Well, Ok, I am not sure what National wants, on any given day I am not sure they know what they want but First Class First Year is about the Troops Program, not rushing a scout to First CLass who can't tie his shoe let alone a bowline.

 

Those who tell you otherwise are wrong

 

Now, at the camp I serve, the "Trail to Adventute" program teaches the skills and then has the boys come back to their troops for the Troop to sign off skills. The Camp Staff does not sign off requirements, they let the troops handle that. Always thought that should be the national standard(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

[desertrat77]

I'm not in favor of these programs. As stated previously, these skills are traditionally a troop's responsibility.

 

There is also an air of "scouting pre-school" as well. Being in the "newbie" class for the better part of the day isn't a solid summer camp experience.

 

Also, please read the small print: some camps have these programs, and still require an adult from your troop to be present each day in the T21 to help train the scouts (if you send scouts, you have to send an adult as well).

 

Seems kinda odd. Why have an adult do the training--shouldn't the senior scouts being doing that? And if an adult from your troop must pitch in as a trainer too, why not skip the class entirely and teach it all in town. I'd rather see the scouts take archery or basketry, or participate in other activities, than sit through a square-filling T21 course.

[shortridge]

Those "send-an-adult-along" requests are for two reasons.

 

1. Altruism. By sending along new ASMs, often former Webelos DLs, they can get hands-on training in Scouting camping methods they might not otherwise receive until months down the road when they get to an IOLS session.

 

2. Pragmatism. A FYC program staff of three or four people cannot effectively run a session with 50-60 brand-new Scouts. They need extra bodies, if only for crowd control.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello OGE,

 

 

I see National promoting the idea of First Class in a year, and they do so in the context of saying that those who complete First Class in a year are more likely to stay in Scouting.

 

I think that's their aim and objective. Shallow trail to first class programs at summer camps are a part of that formula, in my opinion. Else why are they so common? I would suppose they are a part of the National program for summer camps.

 

Those are my conclusions, any way.

 

Perhaps boys who complete First Class in a year stay in the program because, What the Hell, it's only another year to get Eagle and I'll have another line of my resume!

 

 

 

[shortridge]

Sorry in advance for the length.

 

FYC programs began in the early 1990s because new Scouts were arriving at camp with a few months of Boy Scouting under their belts, but without a firm grounding in basic camping skills. They would be signing up for the standard merit badge program, trying to earn Pioneering and Camping without knowing how to tie knots or pack a backpack, or signing up for Environmental Science without the faintest idea of how to identify common plants - and then getting disappointed and disheartened. So camps began offering FYC programs to support the troop program and get these new Scouts to finish out the year.

 

If Webelos cross over at the B&G in February, then they have three separate opportunities (once a month, March, April, May) to go camping before heading off to summer camp in June. Three weekends, regular patrol meetings and regular troop meetings should be more than enough to get the new boys up to speed on the basics. Yet in many, many instances, I found troops that apparently had no outdoor program in the spring.

 

As an FYC program instructor, I encountered countless brand-new Scouts without the faintest idea of how to tie simple knots, do rudimentary first aid, fold a flag, build a campfire or pick proper clothes for camping. (They'd arrive at camp with seven pairs of jeans and a brand-new set of boots that hadn't been broken in.) They were good at reciting the Scout Oath and Law - I guess they got plenty of practice standing in formation in church basements during breaks from playing "Steal the Bacon" - but not much else.

 

Now, 20 years later, have these FYC programs evolved into the opposite of what they were intended to do - replacing the troop's program, instead of supporting it? Perhaps. FYC programs now allow Scoutmasters to be lazy and encourage ASMs to do all the work for the new Scouts on their first couple of campouts, because "they're going to learn all that stuff at summer camp anyway."

[Hawkrod]

I have some EXTREMELY strong opinions on this subject. Our Council offers a transition camp program and from what I have seen it is the best out there. It is not about advancement (although there is plenty if a boy works at it) but it is about making the change from Cub Scouts/non-Scout to Boy Scouts. A few years ago our Council experienced a forest fire at the camp that hosted transition camp and so it was held at another camp with the regular program and I saw the most horrible Scout experience of my career. The way it worked (and works at most T-2-1 programs) is the Scout is with his Troop and after morning meal the newbs peel off and go to their own program while the experienced boys go to their activities. They get back together afterwards and spend the evening with their Troop. Our transition camp is different in the fact that the oldest boys in camp are the ones doing transistion and we also have a large group of second year Webelos in camp at the same time attending a specialized program. Anyway, at this camp I saw a brand new Scout at dinner going on about all he had learned and how great it was and to my horror, an Eagle Scout that was about 17 or so sitting across the table decided he was tired of hearing it and said "thats stupid, even a Cub Scout can do that". I hadn't seen a more crestfallen boy before, The wind was taken right from his sails and he wasn't interested in anything after that. I was pretty upset. I will say that I have been to other camps where they do merge the programs pretty well but I will always be a huge proponent of a transition program that is about getting kids acquainted with Scouting and the Patrol method seperate from the spectre of getting rank ASAP and under the scrutiny of older boys. I think transition camp should be required and the boys at our camp are given a great opportunity to learn how it should be and often times, because they know how it "should be" they become leaders by knowledge and experience. The boys I have taken to transition have better retention and I believe a better Scouting experience than the boys who go to a "trail to 1st class" program at regular summer camp with the rest of the Troop. Because we do teh program with second year Webelos in camp the Boy Scouts are the "big men on campus" and the Cubs look up to them. It builds their self esteem and makes them feel pretty good about themselves which I believes helps in the information retention. I also believe that we get a higher percentage of the Webelos excited about Boy Scouts because they see all the "cool" stuff the Boy Scouts are doing. I see this as an amazing win/win for everyone involved and I truly beieve it has the most benefit of any program I have seen.

 

BTW, The timing of this is thread is interesting as my youngest will be going to transition camp on Sunday along with another new boy from our Troop and then in two weeks they will be attending summer camp with the rest of the Troop and taking a T-2-1 program. Maybe the best of both worlds for the boys although a bit of a strain financially as I have to foot the bill for it! LOL