Should Scouts Get Reimbursed?

[Eagle007]

I caught word of some scouts returning from summer camp that took the lifeguard class. It turns out that a small number of these boys may have paid for a week of fun and adventure with nothing to gain because the instructor failed to tell them until Thursday afternoon that they had to be 15 to get their certifications to become lifeguards.

 

Now I'm sure not all scouts, scouters and parents are always necessarily the sharpest tools in the shed, including me. And some research should have gone into what each scout from the respective troop was signed up for. I also believe that the instructor should have probably asked at the begining of the class if each scout had reached the age of 15 so they could get certified if they passed all other requirements. So where does the blame get put and what could get done about it? Should the scouts be reimbursed for summer camp? Or should the scouts and parents chalk it up to experience for not doing their homework prior to going to camp?

[shortridge]

Chalk it up as a learning experience.

 

Requirement No. 1 for BSA Lifeguard is "1. Submit proof of age. You must be at least 15 years old to participate." Right there, plain as day. If the Scouts had done the slightest bit of homework in advance, they would have seen that they weren't eligible.

 

Should the instructor have done a weeding-out on the first day of class? Sure, that would have made sense (and lessened his or her teaching load, too). But it's not asking too much of the Scout to read the requirements first!

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm with Shortridge. That said, the instructor could have done better. I'd be sure this was reported to the Camp Director who may want to evaluate whether this staffer has adequate intelligence to do the job.

 

 

Question--- I'm consider approving the Merit Badge applications when the Scout turns 15 if it's withing the next 6-12 months perhaps.

 

Any opinions on whether that would be appropriate?(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[skeptic]

Oh come now; we should expect a scout to actually pay attention and figure something out for himself? It is clearly too difficult to understand, as it says to submit proof; and it does not say how to do that. So, it is the fault of the instructor, camp and program director, his SM, his parents, and anybody else that has to hold his hand and make sure he understands.

[Scoutfish]

Okay, the instructor should have confirmed that his class was made up of 15 year olds and older, but at that point, haven't the couts already arrived at camp , settled in , and had already paid for it?

 

Basicaly, they signed up for something and paid for it ....what..at least 2 weeks in advance - without seeing if they were even elligible for it?

 

I wouldn't refund them. I'd tell it does suck and they have my sympathy, but no refund.

[shortridge]

I'd also suggest to both the unit leaders and the camp director that both sides take a close look at the leaders' guide, brochures, website and other materials to make sure that age requirements are clearly spelled out. It's up to the Scout to make sure he's eligible, sure, but the camp also has an informational/educational role to play.

 

That said, at my camp, all age requirements are clearly indicated on the program schedule in the leaders' guide. If a Scout signs up for something he's not eligible for, it's because the leaders didn't read the materials.

[Twocubdad]

A few questions --

 

Who is going to refund their money? The camp? Good luck with that.

 

Did they get nothing else out of camp? No other value other than BSA lifeguard? they didn't hang out with their friends or any other camp stuff?

 

How old are the boys? If they are almost 15 can they not get the certifications when they turn 15?

 

Did they not complete Lifesaving MB?

 

 

[qwazse]

They may actually not die in the process of rescuing. What's that worth to you?

 

They may also read fine print better. Who knows how much that will result in future savings?

[desertrat77]

Can't see justifying a refund, but a good chat with the camp director is in order.

 

The instructor's first comment, after introducing himself, should have been "If you aren't 15, you can take this course but won't get your certification." Scouts could have departed and found something else to do, or stuck around and learned something.

 

SP: I agree with your idea.

[shortridge]

Seattle Pioneer,

 

I think you may be misunderstanding the issue here. The Scouts in question - as *I* understand the OP's post - took BSA Lifeguard, not Lifesaving MB. There's a huge difference between the two.

[kbandit]

At most of the camps we have went to scouts are preregistered by an adult within the troop on what merit badges they wish to take at camp. Just part of the registration process. Have done registration as soon as we arrived at camp with the list. Could the failure to notice the age requirement fall upon the scout and adult within the troop? The scout should have at least looked at the requirements before they sign up for a class.

 

Had a 11 yr old first year scout wanting to take Climbing MB however camp has 14 yr old as a limit to attend the class. Worked with the scout to select something else.

 

Making appropiate choices is part of the learning process. Chalk it up to a lesson learned.

 

Reimbursement for summmer camp? Did they eat there? Did they attend the class they signed up for? Asking for $$ when they did not prepare themselves (reading requirements), NO.

 

My 2 cent for what it's worth.

[Lisabob]

No - not a chance.

 

Look, first, they could have read the requirements themselves. There might also have been other internal-troop checks on eligibility, but at the end of the day, it is the scout's responsibility here. Even a cursory glance would have been enough to recognize they don't meet the requirements yet. Second, even if they aren't eligible (yet), they presumably did learn some things and had a good time? There is more to camp than earning a particular badge. And the skills they developed will still serve them well.

 

Besides, they used the camp facilities, ate the camp food, participated (I hope) in other activities while at camp - they got their money's worth. And learned a couple of useful lessons about paying attention, in the process.

 

 

[jtswestark]

They paid for camp, didn't pay to take Lifeguard. No different than signing up for a merit badge they didn't bring the pre-reqs for. Check into how much it costs to take Red Cross or YMCA lifeguard and consider it time well spent. Except for some real early growers/strong swimmers, most 14 (even many 15) year olds are going to struggle with Lifeguard anyways. If they don't go on to take Lifeguard when they are 15 then they apparently didn't want it that bad afterall. Which I question to begin with by not looking at the requirements or at least not asking about it if they did? I'm not laying blame on the leaders at all, but a great lesson for the boys: "See what happens when you don't read the requirements before starting something?" "Will you read the Eagle project information as well as you did this?" "Do you read the information on classes at school before you sign up?" ... life lessons!

All that said, a small shame on the instructor for not confirming it at the beginning; it is a very time consuming course.

[Papadaddy]

The camp fee is to cover the expenses of attending camp, including food, tents, salaries, materials, maintenance, insurance, etc. They attended camp. No refund. As SM, I would not have approved the activity if they were not eligible, same as for MB. PLenty of blame to go around...but no refund. Life lesson...caveat emptor.

[qwazse]

Although it's not quite like partialling a merit badge, if they stay sharp with their skills, they should be able to easily get their certificate when they turn 15.

 

It depends on the instructor. He might sign a note that the boys did everything but the age requirement. This might help a boy who was hoping to lifeguard this summer. It might not.