Must a boy be on the Charter to attend Dad and Lad?

[LongDistanceHiker]

I've got a cub scout in my den who has not rechartered. He's decided he's not coming back next year. That's regretable, but it happens.

 

However, before it was time for us to recharter, camp money was due. This boy and his dad paid for Dad and Lad.

 

Does this boy need to be on the charter in order to go to Dad and Lad?

 

I would guess that there are liability insurance reasons for him to be on the charter.

 

There's also a question of the purpose of the scout camp properties, staff, etc. That is, scout camp is for active scouts. I can't just organize some random group of campers and head out to scout camp.

 

But I don't want to be unreasonable. "You were on the charter in April, but not in June, therefore you can't go!!!!"

 

Does anyone know the ins and out of charters and camp?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[The Blancmange]

I would punt. Since this is a district or council event, I would ask whoever is running the event and be guided by that answer.

 

Being on the charter is not explicitly linked to liability insurance. Although I can't find it right now, I know there is an allowance for prospective scouts who have not yet turned in an application to "try out" scouting. Liability insurance covers scouters and volunteers. Whether he would be covered by coucil-provided accident insurance is another issue.

[Scoutfish]

Depends on when the recharter takes place, and wghen dad and lad takes place.

 

If the boy is paid up til next Dec31st ( or Jan ist as it may be) and your dad and Lad is in the summer or any month before the Dec/Jan recharter date..then yeah, there is no reason not to let him go. He's paid his dues to be elligible to to attend any activity til his registration expires.

NOw, I am not saying he has paid for camp or any fees, just that he has paid the right to be able to pay to go to camp, or whatever until the recharter date.

 

Now, if this event takes place after recharter, then no, he must either pay to recharter or re register with BSA. I guess there is one exception though:

 

If the dad and lad occurs after recharter drops his registration, you can charge him for the cost of the event and BSA's insurance cost...and let them attend as potential recruits or guests of the pack. Just be sure to let your DE, SE or council registrar know beforehand.

 

WE have done that on pack campouts to people who are wishy washy about joining. 9 out of ten times, they end up joining so council see's it as a recruiting thing.

 

 

Anyways, it all depends on the dates of the Dad &Lad and wether it occurs before orv after recharter.

 

Kinda like renting an apartment: If in January, you pay upfront for 12 months, and tell the landlord in July you are not going to renew come next January, you still are paid up til December and have full rights to the apartment until your lease expires at the end of December.

[LongDistanceHiker]

That's embarrassing.

 

I wish *I* had thought of actually asking my DE.

 

That's what I'm going to do.

 

I like the other ideas you gave me too. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Twocubdad]

There's no liability issue. BSA insurance covers guests and prospective members. This kid is both.

 

Why make an issue? Let the kid go. Maybe he will have a great time and reconsider his decision.

[Eagle92]

I'd ask the DE or whoever is running the event. While I would like them to go, there are issues that need to be addressed.

 

I do know that some councils will go over the registrations to make sure everyone is registered on a charter. If you are not, they will flag the application to the event and ask questions. Sometimes someone is inadvertently left off. Sometimes someone joins just after recharter and the paperwork isn't pushed through.

[LongDistanceHiker]

I did check with my DE, and I asked about classifying this boy as a "prospective" scout since he might re-up later, and I pointed out that there are always visitors at camps and camporees and there doesn't seem to be an insurance issue.

 

But he was firm that our council's policy is to be chartered. And I found out that they actually check a council list when you checkin at camp.

 

The situation has pretty much resolved itself with the boy and his family, it's not so pressing a matter for me right now.

 

I appreciate the support and the ideas from everyone who responded.

 

Thanks!

[ScoutNut]

>>"I pointed out that there are always visitors at camps"

[BartHumphries]

I'd just recharter him and not tell him. Seriously, rechartering is only $15. Add an extra dollar to add him to the insurance and you're all just fine. Normally, only registered/chartered people can attend or work at summer camp. A visitor could go, but they're literally just a visitor, they can't go have fun doing any of the activities -- they're just passive watchers. So, sure, he could attend as a visitor, but he already paid the full fee and the recharter fee is a pittance compared to the full summer camp fee.

 

Then you're totally covered, paperwork, insurance-wise, there's no troubles on your side. As far as he knows, he's not rechartered, he can't really attend any other scouting activities until he actual rejoins, etc.

 

However, ask your DE or someone in the Council office who can just look up his paperwork and tell you just when his registration expires and whether it'll even a problem or not (because registration doesn't expire just because he walks away, it always goes for the rest of the year he paid for).

[Treflienne]

Resurrecting an old thread to ask a related question . . .

Our troop would like to invite a couple of prospective scouts on an outing.  (They've attended one troop meeting this week, but not yet made up their minds whether to join.)   Outing would be an easy bike ride -- a few miles on a suburban bike trail (rail trail) to the ice cream shop and back.   It seems like a good way for a prospective scout, accompanied by a parent, to get acquainted with the scouts in the troop.  (And most kids in our town own bikes and know how to ride them.)

But . . . our committee chair is not sure that inviting a prospective scout on an outing (even accompanied by a parent) is permissible.   Can you point me to something in writing by BSA talking about this situation?

I see this for venturing  ( https://www.scouting.org/programs/venturing/crew-resources/recruiting/ ) which clearly talks about inviting prospective Venturers on "Tier I" outings.  But what about Scouts BSA?

 

[qwazse]

36 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

Resurrecting an old thread to ask a related question . . .

... I see this for venturing  ( https://www.scouting.org/programs/venturing/crew-resources/recruiting/ ) which clearly talks about inviting prospective Venturers on "Tier I" outings.  But what about Scouts BSA?

 

We've generally applied the same principle to the troop as to the crew. The issue is will insurance cover the troop for a guest? Until recently, I've heard yes. Fact is, even if the prospective scout registered today, no insurance fees would be collected until the coming year. But, times change.

As far as inviting anyone to join the troop for ice cream, or to come sit by your campfire, if that person happens to be in the vicinity ... there's nothing that says you have to build an impermeable bubble around your scouts. In fact at last check those oversized balls were prohibited. ;)

However, I will say that this strategy is not the recruitment boon that people make it out to be. Why buy the cow if the milk is free?

[carebear3895]

Insurance question? My time to shine!

Here is the expert from the BSA Council Accident and Sickness insurance plan:

"Only non-scouts, non-scouters or guests who are being encouraged to become Leaders or Scouts are automatically covered while in attendance at a meeting or unit activity or while traveling as a group to or from such an activity. No other guests are covered."

I've heard this is only a one time use coverage too. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by carebear3895

[Treflienne]

16 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

"Only non-scouts, non-scouters or guests who are being encouraged to become Leaders or Scouts are automatically covered while in attendance at a meeting or unit activity or while traveling as a group to or from such an activity. No other guests are covered."

Great.  And is there a place on a BSA website where I could find this?    And yes we are encouraging all new scout families to have a parent sign up for some position in the troop (committee member or . . . )

[carebear3895]

https://www.hsri.com/forms/High Resolution Brochures/Council.pdf

 

here you go, friend