canvas towns

[neil_b]

B-P did criticize the "canvas town" summer camp as being less than ideal. Kudu quoted B-P as saying it was the opposite of Scouting, but I'm not sure B-P went quite that far. However, I have to wonder what B-P would say about the summer camps we have today.

 

I saw one boy last year get 10 merit badges in a week at summer camp. I suspect some of his counselors were rubber stamping and not really testing the boys on the requirements. I know for sure that the adults running the shooting range were relaxing the requirements for rifle and shotgun.

 

Unfortunately, I have also seen too many youth counselors at summer camp leading merit badge sessions who don't seem to know what they are doing and/or just don't do much. There doesn't seem to be anybody checking up on these boys to see if they are doing their jobs properly. I think they should let the participants evaluate the counselors. If the counselors knew they would be getting feedback on their performance they might try harder.

 

We had a bunch of boys sign up for camping merit badge last summer and all of them left with partials. The incompetent counselor didn't even sign off on all the requirements that the boys did, but camping is not a merit badge you can do in a week anyway. It seems like that's one they should not offer at summer camp. They should stick with ones like swimming and rifle shooting that can possibly be done in a week.

 

Astronomy is another merit badge that often disappoints boys at summer camp. If it is too cloudy they can't do all the requirements, it turns into just a classroom exercise, and they get sent home with partials.

 

I guess mainly I just am not crazy about classroom merit badges in general whether it is a merit badge clinic or the classroom style used at summer camp.

[Stosh]

Promise them adventure and give them MB's...

 

Promise them adventure and take the outing out of scouting...

 

Promise them adventure and... (fill in the blank after pondering why the older scouts quit)

 

The boys I've met generally join scouting for adventure, what we give them is programs encapsulated with regulations.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[RememberSchiff]

If BP saw today's scout camps, I think he would

- not be happy

- shut down the mess halls and camp stores

- demand patrol method (and not just cooking)

- have scouts hike in with their gear to campsite

- disconnect the electric

- drop merit badge offerings or at least non-scoutcraft merit badges.

- require swim lessons for non-swimmers.

- require SPLs run their troops at camp

- require more activity, you would see patrols hiking, scouts actually shooting at the ranges, game competitions. Physically fit.

- have scouts sent home for not following the Oath & Law.

- permit fewer adults

 

My $0.02 guess(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[Eagle92]

Yep I remember when I went to summer camp as a youth. With the exception of my 3rd year, I averaged 4 MB classes or instructional swim and 1 free period. One year I took part of my free period slot to work on a 5th MB. Only Indian Lore and pottery, the one I took during free period, were not true scoutcraft or aquatic MBs. I Lore was excellent as the head of the lodge dance team conducted that one. free periods were just that: free time, time to go swimming, boating, shooting, or complete something you were wrokign on for a MB. Never did partials, as we were told in advance what needed to be done prior to camp, and we better have it or you got a partial.

 

Nighttime had intertroop competitions, campfires, and fun activities. Best memory is "Jailbreak" in which each staff member had a watermellon bounty, so if you caught a staffer,you could get from 1-15 watermellons for your troop (alas nobody ever caught the staffer with 15 melons on his head. Found out years later how Aquaman did it, and it was ingenous. And I ain't saying )

 

You also had time to work on stuff at nite and goof off.

 

Third year was different as I took up the Trailblazer program the camp offered. You had to be 13 and First Class by January 1st, so I was 14 when I did it, and it was a small scale HA program. M-Th was spent in the back country, blazing trails, building survival shelters, going backpacking. We actually came into camp early, there was some damage to the outpost shelter we were suppose to stay at and we decided to hike back to camp, but still stayed at the trailblazer shelter away form the troop. Thursday was a review of what we did, BP's adage about Adavancement and Suntans was very apt, and was a skills review of canoeing. Friday was a canoe trip. Learned a very important lesson on that trip: 10 people can fit in a Volkswagen bug I only got 2 MBs that summer, but man did I have some fun.

 

I didn't go back to summer camp again until I was 19 and a ASM. Things changed. Classes were offered at nite time, so there were fewer nitetime activities for the troops. Somehow the focus wen tform having fun and eanring a few MBs to getting as many as possible. First year camper went from being a 3 period course to an all day course so that the scouts could get FA and Swimming, plus whatever other MBs they were working on at nite. Paperwork MBs like the Citizenships were being offered. I was told that was how they kept folks coming back. it was pitiful.

 

More later

[desertrat77]

If a scout goes to camp and his only outdoor experience is walking from campsite, to MB classes, to mess hall, and back, something is wrong.

 

If a scout misses free swim, open shooting, and hanging out with his pals laughing and joking during open rec because he spends most of his week at a picnic table scribbling page after page of homework for MBs that he could have earned in town, something is wrong.

 

Then what you have is a canvas summer school.

[Stosh]

It seems like a lot of scout camps are designed after the space camp concept. Spend a lot of time talking about it, and then actually going into space isn't part of the program. It's a really sad state of affairs when the kid comes home and when asked what he did at camp all he can reply is, "I took up space."

 

There are camps out there that specialize in the "old ways" of doing things. There is nothing in the rule book that says one has to go to the council camp. A scout can go to any camp he wants to. Get on the internet, I was surprised when my boys went looking they found their ideal camp only an hour and a half away!

 

Stosh

 

 

[neil_b]

Stosh - Where are these camps? Sounds great!

[shortridge]

Astronomy is another merit badge that often disappoints boys at summer camp. If it is too cloudy they can't do all the requirements, it turns into just a classroom exercise, and they get sent home with partials.

 

What's wrong with getting a partial? The Scout is that much further along the path toward learning more and earning the badge!

 

If I were King of the Camp, I'd ditch all the merit badges except for First Aid and Swimming, since those are so foundational. All the program areas would run programs - specialized topics such as dutch-oven cooking, bird identification, beginner canoeing strokes, neckerchief slide carving, an all-day hike to the outposts, etc. The rifle, shotgun and archery ranges would be open-shoot, all the time. Boats would be available for checkout and basic instruction all the time. There would be no "class periods" or blue cards or attendance sheets. If a Scout wanted to earn a merit badge, he could meet with one of the program instructors and figure out how to do it. The goal would be to learn new skills and have fun.

[Eamonn]

I'm not trying to defend what Summer Camp has become.

I have never sat on our Council Camping Committee.

Most camps try to make use of whatever natural resources that are available.

While camps are for the most part set away from it all and have places that are very scenic, for the most part they have small clearings where Scout Troops can set up camp and over time swimming pools, ranges and buildings have been built.

Camps are expensive to maintain and run.

I sometimes think that it's a shame to have all that equipment and so many resources only being used for so few weeks a year.

The cost for a Scout to go to camp?

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that the norm is anywhere from $200 -$375 for a week.

While a long way from the cost of going to a theme park for a week, more than keeping a kid at home and having him mow the grass.

Again I'm guessing but the average age for a camper attending a Council ran Scout Camp? Maybe 12 or 13? I really don't know, but my thinking is that the younger Scouts tip the scales.

In the area where I live while most Troops don't sell a lot of popcorn they do raise money most of which is used for sending Scouts to camp. So parents don't have to dig that deep into their pockets.

Unless the parents have been involved with Scouts and Scouting they really don't know what to expect or what their kid is letting himself in for.

Of course they understand the basics: Living in a tent and that sort of thing.

Nearly all the Troops in the Council camp at the Council run camp each and every year.

It is almost expected.

I even heard that a friend of mine who received the Silver Beaver ought not have got it because his Troop wasn't using the camp and was using the bigger camp that our neighboring Council runs.

Scoutmasters are very strongly encouraged to book next years date and site before they depart this year. Most do, booking the same site for the same week each and every year.

The Scouts have no say in it.

Near the end of each week SM's are asked to evaluate the camp and their week at camp.

Talking with the Council Camping Chair. Number one on the list is always the food. Number two is the program areas and how the staff are behaving and doing or not doing their jobs.

Of course by this time what's done is done and the big hope is that maybe next year the soft spots will have been fixed.

The Camp does try to hire the best possible people.

However the camp budget is always hovering and there is a need to keep an eye on expenses.

Adults who even if they are available are not going to work for what a 15 year Scout might.

Older Scouts have expenses and most Scout camps just can't match what a Lad might earn even working at a fast food restaurant. In the area where I live even with the high unemployment these restaurants can't find workers with a starting pay of $8.75 an hour.

Unemployed adults who might be free can't work because working will harm what benefits they are receiving.

I have in the past been asked to go up to camp during Staff Week to help train the camp staff who are counseling MB's.

The truth is that a week is just not long enough.

These guys are doing so much trying to get everything ready that they are lucky to have a couple of days to get their area ready and prepare for the incoming campers.

I voiced this and again it came down to money.

We talked about having training's for camp staff, but ran into all sorts of problems, mainly finding free dates and times for both the people who might do the training's and the staff especially guys who are away at college.

So far we have been unable to find something that will or might work.

A lot of the paperwork is done before the Scouts get to camp. SM's know what is going on, when it will be going on.

While some of the older Scouts might want to attend camp just to get a needed required MB done and out of the way and some Troops send all their first year campers to a first year camper program which is renamed every few years. They also encourage the little guys to earn the not so hard MB's that are offered.

 

These little guys arrive home dirty holding a basket and something that maybe at one time might have looked like a foot-stool.

Soon after camp the Troops hold a COH.

The SM gives the Merit Badge Count.

If most of the Scouts have five badges and your kid has more than five. That's wonderful. If he only has two or three? That's not so wonderful and he needs to do better next year.

The SM agrees and come next year will do what is needed to push this Lad and keep his parents happy.

While I have sat at Executive Board Meetings where the number of badges earned at camp has been mentioned. The fact is that no one really cares what the count is.

They do care how many kids we get to attend camp.

The Board loves to hear that the camp is offering something that is new. I sat at one meeting where the Board thought that taking older Scouts from the camp to learn how to play golf was the best idea ever. (Board members understand golf!)

The camp is trying to make what it offers attractive and meaningful.

Sometimes they try a little too hard. - For a while our camp was covering the Citizenship MB's. I would think that camp is not the time or the place.

 

So who is at fault?

Why has Summer Camp become what it has?

The Council needs to fill the camp so as to make it economically viable.

To do this it needs to have people buy into the idea that going is worth the money, time and effort.

While we like to blame the parents for wanting this that and the other.

My feeling is that we the Scouter's have and help to create what we now have Summer Merit Badge Camps.

We make such a big deal about the Merit Badge Count that parents who didn't know anything to start with buy into this idea.This all ends up as being a circle, the camp and camp staff feel that we need to please the customers so the mill starts and then just can never stop.

A local Troop was going to drive from SW-PA to upstate NY because a camp there offered a bigger selection of badges.

That might well be true? But I'll bet that a first year camper coming home from that camp still comes home dirty with a basket and a mess of twine that will never be used as a foot stool.

Ea.

[Basementdweller]

While the majority here voice disapproval...

 

Any body actually ask what the boys want????????

 

I know of many troops that do as Eamon said, same camp and camp site year after year. It is no wonder they lose boys......

 

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[IM_Kathy]

I have to say I really like our council's summer camp. while we do not have troop/patrol cooking but eat in a dinning hall, I do like that they limit the number of MB time slots and offer lots of free time. Instead of using those time slots for T21 classes they do it during free time allowing newer scouts to pick and choose what they attend and gets them to explore each different area of camp.

 

The one thing that they did change this year which did cause us to have a few of our older scouts not return is that they dropped extreme team - which is where the group heads out for a couple of nights using their survival skills and learning even more.

 

This year my son is attending, but is also doing Philmont a few weeks later... so he is only doing 2 MB's this year and doing a lot of hiking with a buddy since he was planning on doing extreme team.

 

Other things I like is that none of the "class" type of badges are offered. Depending on the badges a boy picks he'll leave camp with no more than 4 badges... and they make them do the work rather than just show up and get signed.

[frank10]

Either the camps you go to suck or you are not using them to your advantage.Camp read will provide anything I ask them for. If I want to cook in site, I will get a crate of food at the back door of the dinning hall, if I want to climb Mt Stevens and sleep out, they will help me do it. Zip line? cope? greased watermellon? Yes, Yes, Yes.

5 nights on the trail, sure, just ask.

4 Merit badges? well, they wont say no, but what a waste of a good camp. I warn my guys not to sign up for too much as we have so much to do that we can't do at home.

But If you just take what is in the camp booklet, well, no wonder you don't like camp.

BTW: my boys like to eat in the dinning hall, they get 30 nights of cooking on our other camp outs each year.

[BartHumphries]

Wait, I'm not sure I understand the OP. At first he decrys merit badges that can be earned in a week, then he's upset because more merit badges weren't earned in a week, then he says that merit badges at camp should be earned in a week?

[Eagle92]

Maybe I am assuming, and I know where that can lead but the OP laments the following

 

1) The fact that some summer camps are pencil whipping MBs

2) That some folks think camp is only for advancement.

3) That people who do not know what they are doing are running the courses

4) Folks are not keeping proper records.

5) Camps offer MBs that take longer than a week without informing folks ( ok that is easily solved by having the scout read the MBPprior to camp)

6) camps offer MBs that are done in a class room, what I call "paperpushing MBs"

 

I don't like folks pencil whipping.

 

I admit I have said camp is a great place to work on MBs b/c you are living in the outdoors for an entire week, making it easier to work on some MBs. But camps should not be spent only earning MBs, but also having fun.

 

I'd rather have a camp not offer a MB than get someone who is unqualified to teach a MB. I do not know if many camps do this, but 1 I worked at actually had leaders help teach MBs, asking in advance, and would have a couple of "weekly specials" done by leaders only in camp that week. Best memory is the public health class, led by a public health inspector, giving the dining hall an inspection. We passed. Ok it was a bit of a paper pushing, but it is kinda unique.

 

Not keeping proper records is a pet peeve of mine. So is people NOT reading my notes stating that the only things left are .... had an SM complain that 2 of his scouts busted tail, and I only gave them credit for 2 requirements. Should have read that those 2 requirements were all they had left.

 

Again I am against the common "paperpushing" MBs being offered at camp, i.e. the citizenships, PM, etc. I know they are important, but they can be done anywhere. Grant you the Public Health one was a paperpushing one, but I've only met those folks in the class with it. So if it is a "unique" MB, one that doens;t have many MBCs, I cna live with it.

 

 

 

[Stosh]

http://www.freelandleslie.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=79

 

My boys unanimously vote to go back to this camp each year. It is an out-of-council camp for us.

 

Stosh