Must parent attend Webelos camp ?

[bear dad]

Baloo is for pack/family camping. There is seperate training for Webelos. In my district it is required for webelo training for den campouts, in another district says it is recommened both from same council.

Baloo has no bearing on this

[bear dad]

Baloo is for pack/family camping. There is seperate training for Webelos. In my district it is required for webelo training for den campouts, in another district says it is recommened both from same council.

Baloo has no bearing on this

[BSA24]

Why would eagle scouts stay in a unit where the unit leader feels they are a dime a dozen!?!? Talk about being unappreciated!

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

We have a lot of eagle scouts ya knot head.

 

I am betting you didn't read my last post.

 

Most of the registered male scouters I deal with are eagle scouts.

 

Now, exactly why should I appreciate and eagle scout????

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[ScoutNut]

Often it is the Eagle Scouters who are the hardest to get to training.

 

Many feel that they have been thru the program, are Eagles, know everything there is to know, and don't need no stinkin' training!

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Since everyone is interested in hijacking this thread over whether or not an Eagle is a worthy leader, I will make one attempt to furnish real information to the WestCoastScouter, the OP:

 

PROGRAM POLICY, from the GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING:

 

Age Guidelines

 

The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for its members' participation in camping activities:

< snip >

* A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

< snip >

If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers.

 

Reference: Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines, No. 13-631

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss03.aspx

 

So, the standard for unit camping for Webelos is 1:1.

 

If this event is a Council organized Camping Opportunity, then the Leaders Guide or other program materials probably should refer back to this.

 

OTOH, if this even is a Council operated Camp, then the Leader's Guide will probably have different guidance on the adult/youth ratio.

 

So, I ask WestCoast Scouter, what do the program materials for this event say?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[BSA24]

Basement: you should appreciate your eagle scouts for the same reason you thank god for the food on your table which also exists in overabundance and is obtained without effort... because you are lucky to have them and the day could come when you are looking around and there are none.

 

There are four phases to every organization's lifecycle:

 

1. Birth & Ramp Up: everyone is excited and gung-ho. Thanking everyone for their help or patronage is common. Lots of positive feelings and expressions of gratitude.

 

2. Complacency: everyone takes everything for granted. "Why should I care?" People are replacable, so just tick off anyone you want and move to the next. No problem.

 

3. Fork in the road: the organization is dying, everyone can see it, and emergency measures are taken to try to get it back on track. Either return to step 1, or go directly to step 4.

 

4. Death.

 

ScoutNut: a prejudicial remark without evidence. My experience with eagle scouts has been the opposite. They are the most difficult to recruit because they know what a huge burden leadership in a scout unit is, but once recruited, I have seen them go all-out all the way through wood badge. I did as well.

 

 

[Eagle92]

'24,

 

Unfortunately I have met a few "Eagles" who couldn't teach a pyro wannabe how to start a fire using lighter fluid and matches Seriously though there are folks who have earned Eagle who have not mastered basic outdoor skills, like orienteering, fire starting, etc, and yes I have met a couple.

 

Also as you get older, if you don't practice those skills, they do tend atrophy. I have seen Eagles who return to Scouting 15-20 years later and some of their skills need polishing or relearning. Heck I freely admit I need to practice my fire starting skills without matches, i.e. fire by friction, hot spark, batteries and steel wool, etc.

 

 

Now in reference to eagles not wanting training, I do see it. Heck I admit, I was one of those Eagles who didn't want to go through training, as I thought I lived through the program. I did all the standard stuff as a youth and then some: Troop Leader training, DC Training, District Troop leader training course, and Brownsea 22 on the training side, plus Jambo and a 50 miler on the camping side.. I knew how a troop meeting was suppose to run, so that part of SM Fundamentals was boring (back in the day, This Is Scouting, SM Specific, and IOLS was 1 course which in my old council was done over a month of 2 weekends and 1 week nite). After going through BA 22 in which I not only mastered basic scoutcraft, but also learned how to teach it, the camping portion of SMF was boring. Not a waste as I met some good folks, but didn't learn a thing. It was the info portion where I learned policies, procedures, and paperwork where I learned the most. Which is one reason why I love the test Out Option for IOLS.

[Basementdweller]

hehehe don't get me started on woodbadge.

 

Eagle sounds like our scouting experience is very similar, Northern Tier, Philmont, Jambo, brownsea, camp staff 3 years......

 

 

[BSA24]

Maybe you guys just aren't very nice to people, and you therefore don't get the best that people have to offer because of your abrasive approach. If you guys approach your eagle scouts with a smirky attitude and tell them they don't know everything and that you don't care if they are eagle scouts, don't be surprised when they don't want to do things you want them to do just to spite you. It's human nature.

 

I have ZERO trouble getting anyone to participate in training. My unit is always 100% trained - always has been - including the eagle scouts. My folks jump in the cars and we convoy to the location. I take it and retake it with them every time. Maybe it's because I tell each one of them how much I appreciate them every time I see them.

 

You may have hiked all of the place (I have as well), but there is no BSA training for people skills.

[ScoutNut]

Wow, talk about a nasty remark, and a case in point.

 

As Basement posted, Eagles are just people.

 

Like all people everywhere, Eagles run the gamut of personalities, and abilities.

 

Some are even rather rude. Perhaps it is not Basement, and Eagle92 who need to brush up on their people skills.

 

[Scoutfish]

I've seen it myself. Council or District announces an upcoming training or a minumum requirement to do/ lead something and a few people stand up, balk and somehow are personally offended that they have to take "X" training or class because they are :

 

Eagleand ahve done it once already way back when, they have been a leader for over ( amount not to be under 15 years here)years, or they are a regular outdoorsman who camps way more than the pack/ troop ever does , so therefore, they automatically know more, and last but not least...they are a CM or SWM so terefore they are obviously at the top of the "people who know everything" list.

 

BSA, you called Scoutnut out for not having proof:

 

 

 

So where is your proof? What evidence do you have that substanciates what you claim?

 

WEll of course you don't have any other than to say that - that ia what you have experienced. Some for Basement, Scoutnut and myself.

 

Am I an Eagle? NOPE! Wasn't even a Cub Scout or Boy Scout as a youth.

 

But I did work my way from beimng just a parent, to a volunteer parent, to being in leadership to being CubMaster of my pack.

 

OIn that time, I have seen leaders who were just parents who stepped up when needed , become some of the best scouters. They took classes in things they thought they already knew just for the fact that some things change, some things are dropped, some things are improved upon and something are found to be wrong or un-necessary.

 

On the other hand, I have seen leaders who were both Eagle and WB who couldn't light a fire with a gallon of gas and 20 Bic lighters because..well simply put, their egos were so big and their attitudes were so arrogany, they could not/ would not ever see themselves needing any more training or more advanced training specific to what they were doing. They also were too bling in their own self importance to recognize that they had forgotten some things or could make mistakes.

 

Not all of them, just some.

 

Same thing that the two other guys who are Eagles and have taken WB pointed out to you.

 

 

[Eagle92]

'24,

 

Actually the Eagles I've encountered are so into scouting, they usually hold multiple positions, and don't have a lot of time for training that they consider pointless.

 

Best example is my WB 3 beader friend. As a Boy Scout, he earned Eagle, did jambo, worked summer camp, did numerous camping activities, went through BA22, and staffed BA22. So heavy outdoor expereince

 

Eventually he became CM. In addition to serving as a CM he also served on the district committee as a program member, and as a MBC for the following MBs: camping, backpacking, hiking, orienteering, canoeing, cooking, and I am probaly forgetting some. Basically anything outdoors he was an MBC for as he had the KSAs to do them and teach them.

 

 

AS a CM he did all the required training, as well as BALOO which was a total waste of time for him. He also did WB21C as a CM, so he never had to do IOLS. When he became an ASM he did the SM Spec only because it was a day long course and it occured when he wasn't busy with the troop, the district, or starting the venturing crew. All he needed was IOLS to be considered "trained" by the BSA was IOLS for both the ASM and CA positions, but he couldn't justify taking an entire weekend away from his units, OA functions (forgot to mention he is a Vigil) or family for something he already knew.

 

Can't say that I blame him really, as I had seen him in action and he knew his stuff. IOLS would have been a waste of time for him. However he finally attended IOLS: when he worked summer camp and taught IOLS all summer to new SM and ASMs.

 

He is one of the reasons why I love the test out option for IOLS.

[Basementdweller]

I don't put my eagle on a staff and wave it around and expect to have instant credibility.

 

I have attended most of the available training. If you would like to see my training record the pm me I will give you my myscouting log in name and see for yourself.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[The Blancmange]

I'll try to get this back on track and expand on what John in KC said with regard to the Webelos resident camp. Absolutely the camp policy controls the question of adult to youth ratio. I have not seen a Webelos-only level resident camp that required parents or guardians specifically. As an example, our council requires 1:5 for Webelos resident camp. I believe that is consistent with NCS standards, and someone who is more familiar with those standards can probable confirm or deny that.