Troop Tents at Summer Camp?

[VigilNavyCPO]

Recently at the OA Fall Fellowship I heard that our Council Camp is moving towards no tents at summer camp. Troops will have to bring their own tents for the week. As the Camp Director was at the weekend, I asked him about this policy. He claimed that the Scouts this past summer were surveyed and asked if camp money was spent on tents or program, that the Scouts all wanted "program". Also he stated that canvas tents are too expensive and that all summer camps are "trending" towards BYOT (Bring your owm tent). I wonder if this is a local trend and how other scouters feel about BYOT to summer camp. Thanks for your input.

[IM_Kathy]

what we heard is that our normal summer camp location is going to offer a discout to troops that bring their own tent.

 

for my son's troop this could run into some issues - they do NOT allow cots in the troop tents because of how they can damage the floor and I'm not sure the boys want to spend a week on the ground even though they do it for philmont and the like.

[eagle90]

We always use our own tents for summer camp. They are in much better condition than the camp-supplied tents, and have full mosquito netting, which our camp tents don't. And in the Wisconsin northwoods, that is imperative.

 

Trust me, the kids can stand a week on the ground with an air mattress or pad. They are normally so tired at night they will sleep good no matter what. Now us old guys, I need a cot!!

 

Dale

[shortridge]

This is most definitely not the trend at either of my council camps.

 

No canvas would definitely trim down the camp budget. That means less capital outlay for tents, platforms, outriggers, 4x4s and cots ... no need to store all that stuff somewhere during the rest of the year ... about 2 days of staff time during training week instantly freed up for program training ... no need to move tents around on check-in day to accomodate patrol numbers ... no need for commissioners to spend time inspecting tents at check-in and check-out ... I can definitely see the attraction from the camp staff point of view! Wow, that would have been really nice.

 

But if there isn't some huge simultaneous improvement in program or reduction in fees, it really rings hollow. It would be like staying at a full-price hotel but being told I have to provide the mattress, sheets and pillows.

 

A discount to troops bringing their own tents doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, unless it's a plan to lay the groundwork for dropping canvas tents in the future. The camp would still have to have enough tents to cover everyone in case no one brought their own tents - then the staff would be constantly setting them up and taking them down. Seems kind of dumb.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Stosh]

1) I have attended summer camps where no tents were provided, BYO only. It was no problem for the boys or adults. (Wyoming)

 

2) I have attended summer camps where the tents (wall tents) were all set up with floors and cots. It was no problem for the boys or adults. (Wisconsin)

 

3) I have attended summer camps where the tents were optional, they provided them (wall tents), but boys set them up, dragged in floors put up their cots if desired and hung their mosquito nets. It was no problem for the boys or adults. (Wisconsin)

 

My troop prefers camp option #3!

 

Personally I don't have an opinion in any of these directions. As long as I'm out camping, I don't care.

 

Stosh

[skeptic]

We have gone the bring your own option for a number of years, in order to save $$$$, usually about $20 per camper. As pointed out, we also have better shelter in most cases, as camp tents are not that good in weather, often in poor shape, and very hot. The only disadvantage is having to set up camp when we arrive, which makes things a bit tight sometimes.

 

But, the savings is well worth it.

[Stosh]

"We have gone the bring your own option for a number of years, in order to save $$$$, usually about $20 per camper."

 

We use the camp's wall tents and there is no discount for bringing your own, which our boys don't like to do. They're too small, they prefer the big wall tents.

 

"As pointed out, we also have better shelter in most cases, as camp tents are not that good in weather, often in poor shape, and very hot."

 

The camp has very nice tents, many brand new every year. Hold up in bad weather better than the nylon tents in my experiences. Hot? I'll take a wall tent over a dome tent any day for coolness. Ever wonder why there are grommets in the 4 corners? To lace the walls and doors. Pull the laces, roll up the walls and doors and you have a mini-fly. No way do I want a dome tent that has tight mesh screens and minimal ventilation. Last year the boys put all 4 tents end to end and had one long patrol "lodge". They opened up one side shebang style and had a blast for the week.

 

"The only disadvantage is having to set up camp when we arrive, which makes things a bit tight sometimes."

 

Our boys put up tents (4 per patrol), flys (2 per patrol), kitchens (2 wood stoves per patrol, all in-site cooking, no mess hall), clean the latrine and campfire bowl if necessary and still get in their swim tests, check-in, and orientation for the week.

 

"But, the savings is well worth it."

 

We don't save a dime, but this is the camp the boys unanimously vote every year to attend.

 

Stosh

[skeptic]

Gosh Stosh, you must have a great council camp, if that is what it is. Unfortunately, many of us have to deal with struggling plants that have to find ways to focus on program with limited funds. As far as tents being hot or cold, the canvas tends to be suffocatingly uncomfortable in temps over 80 degrees every day, which is common in our area. And most dome or similar tents have better ventilation, while still protecting from the elements; don't have to worry about the "touching the wet canvas" syndrome. Of course, time is also a factor many years, as the camps are so 4-6 hours of driving sometimes, at least in our area.

 

Am glad you are happy with your camp, and that you have satisfied scouts. Keep up the good work.

[Stosh]

Skeptic,

 

The camp we attend is not our council's camp. The boys have the option of going to whatever camp they want to and for the past three years have opted to go to a camp that meets their requirements, not what the council provides. As a matter of fact the camp they attend belongs to an out-of-state council.

 

It wasn't a matter of being lucky, it was a process of research on the part of the boys to find a camp they really wanted to attend. Once they found this camp they have yet to want to attend any other. About midweek they start the process of bugging the leaders to make sure that at check out that we have reserved the camp for the next year.

 

Stosh

[shortridge]

I'm with Stosh on the benefits of canvas tents at summer camp. Yeah, they're unbearably hot if you keep the flaps down. But if you roll the doors and walls up, you've basically got a tarp - much cooler!

 

Plus they are sturdier and roomier. Doesn't matter for a short-term camp or when you're moving around, but when you're in one place for six days, it's nice to have a bit more space.

[raisinemright]

I've only been at scout camps where troops supplied their own tents. Never been a problem. We just moved cross-Country and all the camps near here have camp supplied tents. That just doesn't seem like campint to me. It will be very hard to get used to.

[Stosh]

For all those out there that think the canvas wall tents are too hot, I keep my walls and doors rolled up unless a thunder storm rolls through. In Wisconsin we can get a week of 90+ weather with high humidity which makes the wall tents excellent for the job.

 

Instead of trying to lace the corners in a hurry, I have a bag of dog clips that work just fine holding the walls to the doors, go on quickly and hold in high winds.

 

If one doesn't have ties for the walls, they can also be used to pull the walls up inside the tent held with a bit of twine to ridge pole. If the weather turns bad, cut the ropes, clip from the inside and you don't need to go outside and get wet. I always think of my wall tent as a mini-fly with storm shields on the 4 sides.

 

When I was a kid in scouts, we had a patrol wall tent, bigger than the camp wall tents where the whole patrol slept in the same tent. The rolling up of the walls was standard procedure.

 

As far as bugs, there's always netting. I carry netting and rubberized blanket whenever I meadow crash. No bugs and if it decides to rain, just roll up in the blanket. The rubberized blanket is a wee bit heavy, but the netting is nothing for weight.

 

Stosh

[shortridge]

What are dog clips?

[Stosh]

The leash hook with the spring loaded slide that holds them onto a dog collar. You can get them reasonably cheap at any hardware store. Get the large hooks that can hold two of the grommets at the same time and will save time in a thunder storm of trying to lace all the grommets together with rope.

 

Stosh

[clemlaw]

I think we usually used rope, or maybe even twine--whatever was handy.

 

But I vaguely recall using clothes pins a few times.

 

I agree, unless you have to haul them very far, I prefer the canvas wall tents over almost anything else.

 

We had a large council camp this past summer and a big windstorm blew through. Many things blew down.

 

But two groups seemed to get through it unscathed. One was the Civil War reenactors, and the other group was the 1910 Boy Scout reenactors. In both cases, their tents seemed to stay standing just fine.