Asking for Donations at Camp Worship Service

[dScouter15]

My troop recently returned from summer camp, and we had one experience that I had never encountered before, and I can't decide if I should be bothered by it or not. On the Sunday night at camp, the staff conducted an interfaith worship service which was attended by my entire troop. The service itself was OK, but I was a bit surprised, when, towards the end of the service, the adult chaplain addressed everyone and asked for monetary donations. He stated that the donations would go towards producing various "prayer cards" that were freely available to campers - laminated card stock the size of an index card that had a drawing of a camp scene and the camp's logo on one side, and a non-denominational prayer on the other. This in an of itself didn't bother me, until the chaplain proceeded to pass a collection basket around - just like during the offertory at church. By the time it got to me, there was a good amount of loose change, and also a more than a few $1 and $5 bills, with a couple $10s as well. Considering that there were a couple hundred kids or so present, they had to have netted a fair chunk of change by the time the baskets made it all the way around.

 

So I think I have a few issues with this - first, I don't feel its reasonable to solicit donations in this setting from a group of scouts as young as 11 or 12. I don't think these scouts have a good idea of how much it would be appropriate to donate to such a cause - as evidenced by the fact that there were donations of several dollars made. Second, I don't think that the cause they were asking for donations for - little paper prayer cards - was appropriate. If the money had been going to the poor, to subsidize camperships, or even to refurbish the chapel, I'd have less of an issue with it. But, getting that much money to print paper cards that couldn't cost more than a few dollars for a couple hundred? Finally, I think that the setting - "passing the plate" was inappropriate, because it may have pressured scouts into making a donation. Frankly, I feel that each scout already paid close to $300 to attend camp, and that the camp should have been able to cover the chaplain's budget without asking scouts for donations.

 

Now, I appreciate the importance of asking scouts to donate some of their own money for worthy causes, but I feel that this situation was just completely out of line. I'm considering writing to the council and the camp director expressing my unhappiness, but I have to wonder if I'm overreacting. Any thoughts or comments?

[jhankins]

Anyone can donate. We ask for loose change at Day Camp for the World Friendship Fund. At Wood Badge we do the same (albeit more money, but still the same meaning!). During one IFWS, the boys asked if they could send money to the MAC council for the families of the boys from the tornado. Of course we said yes!

 

We think of it as a tithe-- doing our duty to God and giving up control of what the money if for, but praying that that money does its job to bring someone close to that 12th point of the Scout Law.

[shortridge]

A few observations & questions ...

 

- As a general rule, the cost that boys pay for Scout camp doesn't even begin to cover the whole cost of the program and facilities. Council revenues and donations underwrite a large portion of that cost behind the scenes.

 

- Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with that type of a fundraising appeal, but then I don't come from a faith tradition that "passes the basket." I have attended Protestant services where that's done, and always seem to sit next to the fellow who puts in a $20 and then feel bad when I just add my 50 cents.

 

- I've never heard of or seen "prayer cards" at summer camp. Are they handed out to every camper, or just "available" at select places around camp? Are these a longstanding camp tradition? Is the prayer one that's been passed down through years of Scouts and Scouters here? In other words, does the camp get a good bang for its buck? Or is it something new or trendy that an ambitious chaplain decided to launch on his own this year?

 

- The math doesn't quite seem to add up, frankly. If you had 200 people in the audience, and everyone put in just 50 cents, that's $100. Multiply that by five weeks or so of camp, and you've got $500 at minimum - maybe more like $1,000, given your description. That's a LOT of prayer cards, even if they're laminated (which does jack up the price).

 

- If I were in your shoes, I would write a letter, politely suggesting that another cause be chosen - camperships, a needy family, disaster recovery efforts in Haiti or the Gulf or locally. There are lots of very worthy causes that don't come across as quite so egocentric.

 

I would also suggest that donations simply be accepted at the main camp office, or in a basket placed to the side of the trail on the way out, so that Scouts are not compelled by peer or adult pressure to give. You could note also that not every faith tradition does that type of offering, and Scouts may not be used to it.

[moosetracker]

I too would ask for the donations to go elsewhere. Also I guess the question is, if this is a camp you attend yearly, or where you trying out a new camp. If a camp you attend yearly and this is a "new" thing, I guess I would have expected someone to inform the adult leaders, so they could inform the scouts. If a different camp then normal, the normal campers may just know the routine, you did not.

 

I think it is important to "expect" that donations will be asked so that you go in with the correct amount you want to donate. Kids can feel obligated to donate, and find they only have a $5 or $10 bill as the lowest denominator, so feel forced to offer that up, when they really only would have given $1. It's kind of hard to ask neighbors for change, or work out something with pulling money mid-service.

 

If it was Sunday night I am guessing this was like the first or second night at camp, so boys hadn't had much time to break down the large denominations Mom & Dad gave them at the beginning of camp. wouldn't be so bad if it was the last night of camp, then all you would get is leftover change (if that).

[RememberSchiff]

Agree this is not appropriate at scout camp.

 

I don't think that we as adult leaders should ever ask for cash donations (or candy for that matter) from youngsters. In church, sure youngsters drop donation that Mom or Dad agreed to. I mean what next FOS after their camp photo?

 

Cash donations from adults to whatever cause can be collected elsewhere.

 

My $0.02

 

 

[evmori]

Totally appropriate at a worship service anywhere.

[Stosh]

Duty to God seems to be taking a backseat in this discussion. I'm thinking that this Scout Law deserves a bit more attention than maintaining a warm spot in the pew for an hour once a week.

 

Every major religion expects it's followers to contribute to the welfare of others in a variety of different ways. Monetary collections is one of these ways and it is always 100% voluntary, as is any expression of one's faith.

 

If this lesson of faith is not taught and only valid for adults, then the religious law needs to be stricken from the BSA Scout Law. We wouldn't want our children exposed to such intense religion until they are old enough to handle it.... ?????

 

And the purpose of the contribution is for the benefit of the giver, not receiver. If one worries about where the money is going and if it is really going to a good cause, then they are assuming those collecting the money are not trustworthy, another one of those tricky Scout Laws. It also indicates that the "donation" is a "donation with strings attached" and is not really a donation at all.

 

Yes, there are some causes in everyone's minds that is more worthy than the next guy's. I preached at summer camp last week and could have felt it appropriate for an honorarium as is the custom in my religious tradition, but none was offered. So what? It's not a big deal and I was glad to do it. And anyway, I was staying free for the week in God's Country, so I was coming out ahead in the process.

 

As an expression of my faith, I tossed in a few bucks when the hat was passed at our chapel service and thought nothing of it. It was something I needed to do as a way of responding to the faith system I adhere to. I have no idea what the money is going to be spent on, but I trust those who have it are putting it to good use.

 

I'm thinking if one is going to look at this situation as a monetary transaction, then it's probably a bad business decision in some people's minds. But if one is going to look at this situation as an act of faith, then it's time to move on to more important issues. I prefer to view it as an act of faith.

 

For those who wish to collect money for some other issue, maybe they can put a tip jar at the Trading Post instead. Or the staff could walk around the different campsites and pan-handle some support. That's always a good technique for raising money.

 

At Philmont pocket Testaments are offered to anyone that wants them. Does anyone really think for a moment that these are produced free of charge? No, someone somewhere put up some money so that the Christian scouts that attend Philmont, who would like a pocket sized book to assist them in their "A Scout is Reveent" trek, to have one. I still have mine and although I own many bibles of different translations, there's always one that never gets taken out of my backpack to be read except in the woods. I wonder if the person who dropped a few $$'s in a plate/hat somewhere is even aware of whatever happened to it.

 

If some scout somewhere keeps a small laminated prayer card with his summer camp picture on the back, tucked in his shirt, or maybe uses it as a book mark in his Bible, then the $20 some scout tossed in the hat got his money's worth out of the deal.

 

And in case anyone is even remotely interested, the Philmont Testament in my pack replaced the small Testament I had received as a first year scout at summer camp back in the early 1960's.

 

My advice? Toss in whatever you feel you need to toss and then forget it. Trust in the other scouters to do what's best, it's part of their honor in doing their duty to God as well.

 

Stosh

 

[jhankins]

Giving isn't appropriate? Look what the scouts of the BSA voluntarily have done through their gifts in the past year from our CSE

 

--

 

It always amazes me how something that starts in such a tiny way can grow into an initiative of major significance.

 

In March, I had the pleasure of presenting a check for $52,000 to the little kingdom of Bhutan, a landlocked country in South Asia, located at the eastern end of the Himalaya Mountains. This money gave them the ability to build their first Scout camp.

 

It was a marvelous trip. The things we saw were both heartwarming and gut-wrenching at the same time. We had no idea how much of a difference Scouting was making across the globe.

 

Scouting is very new to Bhutan, only about 10 years old, but they have 20,000 Scouts now. Democracy is fairly new to these people, too. Its only been two years since a multi-party democracy was introduced into their monarchy, launched by a very benevolent king. Their first actual election in Bhutan was held on March 24, 2008.

 

What is so touching about this gift to Bhutan is that those quarters we collect from Scouts during summer camp for the World Friendship Fund brought the joy and adventure of Scouting to this little Third World country.

 

Our small gift provided for the total infrastructuresewer, water, and powerto build a camp to accommodate 400 kids, something this country had never seen before.

 

We go through this World Friendship Fund collection every summer, and often dont stop to think about what this initiative really means. It is a wonderful example of how Scouting can help kids around the world.

 

Share this story. It really brings home how important our movement can be.

 

Thanks, Bob

[SSScout]

I also suggest you write a letter expressing your observation and feelings on the matter.

A collection is appropriate, and most protestant denominations

"pass the basket" . Other faiths have a "collection box" near the door, which I favor in this instance. The box near the door can be accessed later, without holding things up. I have seen contribution boxes in many venues: museums, Scout camps, US Parks. We do need to finance "God's work" (and, if properly addressed, most of it is God's work, in one form or another). That said, I also agree that the amount collected could certainly be expected to exceed the requirements for printing up prayer cards. It would have been good to allocate the remainder to Haiti relief or the Red Cross or CARE or some other worthy cause. The Chaplain missed an opportunity.

[Twocubdad]

It is completely appropriate that an offering be taken during a Scouts own service. It is also completely appropriate that those taking the offering be held accountable for it.

 

If the stated purpose of the offering is to produce the prayer cards, then ALL the money should go there. If the donations produce more cards than the camp can use, the chaplaincy program needs to find an appropriate use for the extra cards. Or if there is a surplus of cash, those in charge should select another worthwhile project to fund and announce that decision to the camp at it's earliest convenience. Sliding the extra cash off to general camp operations or the staff pizza fund isn't right. The donations weren't made to the camp.

 

As Stosh suggests, giving may be an act of faith, but collecting an offering is an act of stewardship. When things don't seem right -- and particularly when most of the donors are children -- it is a furtherance of that stewardship to hold accountable those responsible for the money.

 

As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust -- but verify."

[desertrat77]

Inappropriate.

 

Giving is a hallmark of many religions, true. But I think it's more appropriate for the scout to practice giving at the place where his family worships (for the scouts that practice faith in that manner).

 

If a scout attends a place of worship regularly, there is a bond, a long term commitment. Religiously, socially, financially, these bonds with his place of worship trump a temporary service at camp.

 

I have always viewed camp services as an important but temporary measure while folks are away from home.

[emb021]

At every scout worship services I've been at, whether at a scout camp, OA event, camporee, or the like, a donation collection has been made, usually for the World Friendship Fund or the Mari Clancy Fund (if OA).

 

 

[BadenP]

Look at it this way, if a boy decides to put a few coins in to contribute to a worthwhile cause instead of running to the commisary to buy a load of candy after the service then more power to him. Part of scout training is to teach them responsibility and making the proper decisions.

[Stosh]

I have always viewed camp services as an important but temporary measure while folks are away from home.

 

There are a lot of people that think this way and that's okay for them, but I tend to think God goes with me wherever I go and that taking the time to recognize this is a good thing and the more it "feels like home" the nicer it is. I never want to feel that "someplace else" is not as good or a temporary fix as the "normal" place.

 

As a matter of fact, when I look into the sky from my backyard I see a lot of stars, but when I stand in the meadow at Boy Scout camp, often times I see a ton more stars and even the hand of God. For a long time I thought my eyes had gone so bad over the years I would never again see the Milky Way. Duh, at camp away from the city lights, it's right there just as it always was. So, sometimes away is better than at home. Worship can be that way too.

 

Stosh

[dScouter15]

Thanks everyone for the insights. I agree that its not so much of a problem to be asking scouts to make a monetary donation, but I still feel that the situation as a whole was a bit off. I feel that passing the plate around created an atmosphere too much like a "real" church. I think many of the scouts did not really understand how much an appropriate donation would be, but knew that their parents put a couple bucks in the offering at church, and did the same. Maybe the chaplain should have given some more guidance - "please consider donating your loose change" or "if everyone contributes just $1" or something to that effect.

 

While I don't really know how the prayer cards idea came to be at this camp, I still feel that they are not really something worth asking for donations for - especially given the amount of money which seems to have been collected.

 

If the chaplain had said something to the effect of "A candy bar at the trading post costs $1. How about everyone think about buying one less candy bar this week, and instead donating $1 to help less fortunate scouts attend camp?" -- I would have no problem with that. But the whole situation just felt a bit weird, and I think that I will direct some of my concerns to the camp director.