just got back

[GKlose]

Just got back from summer camp -- this year, I pushed for going to a patrol-oriented summer camp. Honestly, the camp was everything it was billed to be, and it was great. This is Camp Bell, part of the Griswold Scout Reservation, Daniel Webster Council, NH.

 

The patrol cooking aspect went extremely well. Cooler deliveries to a central site, twice a day. There is a standard menu for the week, or you can write your own menu from a commissary sheet. Since we had a couple of issues (vegetarian; egg-dairy allergy), I stopped in a couple of times to review and modify our order, and to read labels.

 

The program aspect was patrol-oriented too. Patrols sign up for various program activities, one per day. For example, Tuesday morning our scouts went down to the waterfront, did their swim checks and then went off with an instructor to go sailing. One scout who didn't pass his swim check ended up in instructional swim for the day.

 

But one thing I really like about the camp is the overall design -- here's an example: Tuesday evening, all adult leaders were pulled out of the camp to go to an off-site leader's meeting at an adjacent camp (part of the same reservation). Our guys were left behind, and staff members provided coverage. Dinner prep had started when we were leaving, and when we came back about two hours later, dinner had been finished and cleaned up and everyone was off at a camp-wide game, running around and having fun. I wanted to shout, "YES!". Training for the adult leaders as well as our youth.

 

Another interesting touch, that I caught onto our second day: at dinner, we had a single staff guest. It was always the primary program staff member for the next day. They came in early, to assist with instruction on cooking and cleanup if necessary, and then sat with the patrol during dinner. Then we spent the next day with them.

 

We only had minor suggestions during the week, not even complaints -- for example, on our campsite tour, our guide made a big deal about latrine cleanup using two different brushes, one for the sink and one for the toilets. But then they both went into the same disinfectant bucket.

 

I had one major complaint, but that wasn't related to the camp staff at all -- there was an NYLT group sharing the camp with us last week. Their program was pretty rigorous, so they were hitting the shower house every night after campwide taps. They made a tremendous amount of noise for about 45 minutes every night. After putting a complaint in "through the channels", I was forced to confront the NYLT SM himself on the 4th night. He was very gracious, but said that he wished he had known sooner. So much for "the channels".

 

Guy

[desertrat77]

GKlose, glad you all had a great camp.

 

One point you mentioned, consideration for the adults. A little appreciation for adult leaders goes a long ways, and the camp staff leadership that figures that out will make some serious goodwill. When I was a SM at camp in '87, I got a thank you mug--and I still have it to this day, and will always value it.

 

The other point is noise. Folks seem to think their right to make noise trumps another person's right to peace and quiet. I think the opposite is true. There's a time to be rowdy, and a time to be quiet. After taps, it's quiet time.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us--this forum would definitely benefit from more posts like yours.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Guy,

Wow! Sounds like you really had a great camp experience. As we have discussed before, that is where I really want to see our troop as well. We are still green enough that the week ling patrol cooking expereince may be beyond them, but then again young is when you want to start them that way so that they don't develop any bad habits.

 

Too bad we are so far south or I would have suggested that we go to that camp next year. Instead we are talking about setting up our own camp with patrol cooking and patrol and scout decided activities. See the thread-- http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=281071

 

We are considering several regional camps already for next year. Smaller but capeable camps which are close and less expensive. We will have to give some serious consideration to offered activities which are more patrol centric. Thanks for sharing you camp expereince. I would like to hear more about the camp, and how it went for the patrols. What did the scouts' feedback about this camp?

[Stosh]

Buffalo,

 

One year I had young boys go to local camp, 10 minute drive to camp. Remember that camps have to provide staff, equipment, program, etc. Each boy pays for those services.

 

That same year I took the older boys to BWCA, 500 miles away, that they planned out on their own. The young boys paid more that year than the older boys even when the cost of gas and out of state fishing licenses were calculated in. The boys did not use any local outfitters, but did their own planning, budgeting, etc. and it truly paid off in the end.

 

Stosh

[GKlose]

Buff -- I can send private email with more details. But I have your email address at home on another computer.

 

Here's a thought off the top of my head -- the mix of our patrol was 4 experienced scouts (13-15) and 2 younger scouts. Ranks are T, 1C, 3xStar and Life. The way our troop is, none of them have much experience at actually cooking for themselves.

 

(it's difficult to explain, but of the rest of our scouts, about 20 of them, there are about 6 who are young and didn't sign up for camp, about 6 who are older and have no interest in camp at all, and the rest are scouts who attend a local "Eagle Week" that is set up as a provisional camping experience -- I understand and recognize the overall problems this troop has -- there are a couple of us adult leaders really looking at fixing this) Anyway -- to rebuild patrol method from the ground up, we're concentrating on "those that show up." So back to the six scouts in camp.

 

Two things surprised me -- the newest (who happens to be my youngest son), Tenderfoot, was always the first one to volunteer to do anything. He liked cooking for the group, taking it very seriously, and he would jump in and assist whenever anyone needed help. Two of the others were the vegetarian and the ovo-lacto allergy Scout, and had limitations on what they would cook and clean up. Of the three left, one was our PL/SPL for the week, and I counseled him to keep himself off the duty roster for two reasons: he had to be willing to assist whenever and wherever necessary, and because he had all sorts of other responsibilities (including the twice a day camp-wide SPL meetings with the program director). He's also a special case -- he's kind of a loner and this was his first time at really exhibiting any kind of leadership. And he did really well.

 

The other two scouts, one is a "minimal effort" kind of kid, and the other seems to be the kind of kid that avoids work at all costs.

 

So far, the overall reaction of our scouts are mixed: everyone had fun and enjoyed it. The cooking and cleanup really turned out to be a non-issue. Idle time in one place versus idle time in another, compared to the regular camp we attended last year. The non-advancement emphasis of the camp -- this was probably the biggest disappointment for them. They're used to bagging merit badges at camp.

 

(I've since been doing more reading about the Griswold Scout Reservation in NH -- many troops do two weeks, one at each camp. I'm starting to see the wisdom of that. There is also the idea that there dining hall camp, Hidden Valley, offers most Eagle-required MBs, and they have a "Trail to Eagle" session on Friday -- this program means that our other scouts that emphasize going to an Eagle Week on a provisional basis can pretty much get the same thing by staying with the troop for the week at Hidden Valley. Bottom line: we're now starting to think about two weeks next year.)

 

Guy

[GKlose]

D-rat: about the noise...

 

In the process of me making multiple complaints, I said that I had no problem with those noise levels prior to 10pm (the alleged camp-wide quiet time), but that once we hit 10pm I had a problem. Everyone understood.

 

Granted my troop's site was adjacent to the shower house where this took place, but other troops agreed with me, saying they could hear it too. The booming was exacerbated by the roof cavity of the shower house, but we were also talking screams, yelling from one stall to the next (yelling, not a regular talking voice which could easily be heard), and some "un-Scoutlike" language that another adult leader heard (then he heard a quiet "are there any staff members in here?", to which he replied "yes" -- and then he heard them scoot out very quickly). There was also the lines of scouts waiting to get into stalls, who didn't keep their conversational levels down.

 

Times four nights in a row.

 

On the other hand, I thought it would be only fair if I were allowed to enter the NYLT campsites (about 90 scouts and 20 staff, I think) and make a ton of noise at 5am. :-)

 

But I didn't -- there was followup, though. Several scouts and staff members apologized to me. One adult leader said that they were going to work the "courteous" angle into their morning session and he started to mention a punishment. I told him, honestly, that I had no interest in anyone being punished, that I just wanted the after-hours noise to stop.

 

Guy

[GKlose]

Stosh, Buff --

 

My two most memorable summer camps, when I was a scout, were the summers that we drove six hours north to a county park in Michigan, where we set up and ran our own summer camp. This was one of the rare times that several dads camped with us, and many provided the program for the week. Our own waterfront; a rifle and archery range; a "trading post"; the whole place was our own nature lodge.

 

300 feet apart? I have no clue where the other patrol sites were (although I knew in what general direction they were). Nobody was within a quarter mile of my patrol's site. We'd hump up water and coolers with the meal deliveries from the parade ground, and we'd have an adult or two join us for meals. The best part, I thought, was that "special guests" (such as the park commissioner) were dining with the "honor patrol", which was whatever patrol was leading the overall "points" competition, which was based on things like inspections, camp improvements, patrol spirit, flags, gateways, etc. Years later, I have no idea how this kind of thing can be pulled off, but it was great.

 

Now that's patrol method!

[mbrownkc7]

Got back Saturday after 10 days at the beautiful H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation in Osceola, MO. It was very hot and humid but amazingly I wasn't dying to leave. Our boys seemed to have a wonderful time and the program was excellent as always. The kids earned some merit badges and we had some rank advancements. We also had a project going on in camp were the boys built bird houses for their parents and the Scout Reservation. Our other project was cleaning out a cave so kids could explore it safely. And as always, Mic O Say kept the boys interested in scouting and I can't wait to do it all again next year.