Swim tests: Before or at camp?

[frank10]

Some things were meant to be checked personally not to take some ones word for it. If you hand me an empty gun I'll still check the chamber my self (and if I hand you one and you don't I'll ask for it back.). I hook a volt meter to the lines even if my helper has turned off the power and a camp should see a scout swim no mater how much his SM says he can.

Maybe in a pool it is OK since the life guards are never more than 20 feet away and can see the bottom.

[IM_Kathy]

we sort of do both.

 

our boys cross-over around January. Usually by now (I'm running late this year) we do a swim test and then the boys learn the rescues for 2nd and 1st class and then perform them. It is basically held for all the new scouts or any boys who have not yet passed the swim test so that if we do a swim or canoe event before summer camp we know who can and can't do what etc... this allows the boys who don't pass the test to know either what to work on before summer camp so they can hopefully pass it there, or know that they need to take the learning to swim class rather than the swimming merit badge. Also if there is a boy who cannot pass I will work with him while the other boys enjoy the open-swim time at the pool if he wants to.

 

but by the BSA standards I don't qualify anymore to sign off on swim tests, and it's hard to get allllll of our boys to attend same place/time/date for testing... so everyone attending summer camp does retake the swim test there. Our camp does rotate through very well so it's not that big of a deal to do that there.

[BrentAllen]

Our camp allows us to take the test before we arrive, and we do. We take it in a pool, and the camp has a lake. All of our first year Scouts take Swimming, if they pass the swim test. We haven't had any issues of pool vs. lake, and that might be due to the abundance of lakes nearby. "Going to the lake" is a regular occurance around here (my son went with some friends yesterday, and they were out on the water, already riding the tube). We have a Red Cross-certified Life Guard conduct the test for us. Saves a TON of time at camp!

[Gunny2862]

We have begun doing our own tests for our own purposes - including an opportunity for in-pool related advancement. But the Camp we tend to go to has a 100% test policy - every camper to include BSAL © campers either test at site or no water activities for you.

I have to say that it does eat a portion of check-in day but I do like that the camp is taking the boys safety seriously by ensuring that they can swim ( at least a little).

[frankpalazzi]

Our camp breaks the boys up into groups, each with a Staff Guide, to conduct the tour. The tours are started in different places in different order, so each group gets to Waterfront at a different time. While there may be some back up, it's not that bad. Camp does not accept pre-camp swim checks, but we check our boys anyway. Granted, a pool is NOT the same as a lake, but we can gauge a boy's ability pretty well by duplicating the test in a pool or other lake which is probably not the same as the Camp lake. With some knowledge of swimming ability beforehand, we can easily help a boy who is a non- or weak swimmer get motivated to spend more time at waterfront during the week for instructional swim. Parents are usually thrilled to see their son come home an "official BSA swimmer," and many have commented it was well worth the camp fee just for that!

[Stosh]

Three times a year we test our boys with the BSA swim test. Once in December in our winter pool party so that we know which boys can go into the deep end of the pool and those that can't.

 

Then in late spring we test again to see who's ready for summer camp.

 

Then all are required to take the test at summer camp.

 

Too often the advancement requirements are viewed as a one-time deal, but with safety, there's no such thing as too many tests.

 

Just because one got through the test once doesn't mean that sitting in front of the video games and eating chips on the sofa during TV times hasn't taken it's toll and now they can't pass the test anymore.

 

If they can, it should take maybe 2-3 minutes and it's no big deal.

 

Same holds true for the Totin' Chip.

 

Stosh

 

 

[qwazse]

I offered this to do this for our troop one year and will never do it again. We have 30+ boys going to camp, and invariably no one evening is good for all of them. If not all the boys show up you're still taking those stragglers down for testing anyway. So then folks (adults, not boys) asked if I would set up two times to catch the boys who needed testing. I then had a revelation, we *pay* for that first day of testing at summer camp whether we do it there or not! Nobody is paying me or the boys who help me for doing it earlier.

 

I decided I needed to focus my energy after camp: on the boys who couldn't make their swimming requirements for first class. Sure, camp staff might be stuck testing 25 boys who already know how to swim, but I've just relieved them of the 4 or 5 who need focused instruction. That way they can attend to boys whose troops don't have BSA guards and instructors in their ranks.

 

Besides, instead of signing off on swim tests, I need to be doing laps. I gotta re-up my guard cert this year, and that 25 yards in 20 seconds aint gettin any easier!

[Knot Head]

Below is what we do also. We've always made sure the test was given by either a red cross or BSA lifeguard, since that is what our summer camp requires.

 

I do wonder if a skilled adult who used to be a lifeguard could give this test for the purpose of a canoe trip. I started a thread whth that question before I saw this thread.

 

>>>>>>>> Our camp allows us to take the test before we arrive, and we do. We take it in a pool, and the camp has a lake. All of our first year Scouts take Swimming, if they pass the swim test. We haven't had any issues of pool vs. lake, and that might be due to the abundance of lakes nearby. "Going to the lake" is a regular occurance around here (my son went with some friends yesterday, and they were out on the water, already riding the tube). We have a Red Cross-certified Life Guard conduct the test for us. Saves a TON of time at camp!

[John-in-KC]

Let me see ...

 

It's a hot summer's day.

 

It's the only chance the kids have to get in the water that day.

 

Why wouldn't your Troop participate in the swim check?

 

OBTW, in my Council, the pool is where the docs and nurses do the medical re-checks. I don't know of very many Troops with qualified staff to do medical re-checks...

[LIBob]

Hi all. (I'm returning to the forum after many years away.)

 

The short version is: as an experienced BSA summer camp lifeguard

I believe every camper should re-take the swim test at camp.

 

Long Version:

BSA swimmer test = jump in water over your head, swim 100 yds using selected strokes.

 

BSA beginner test = jump in water over your head, swim 50 yds. using any stoke.

 

As a youth, I spent a summer as a waterfront camp counselor (camp had a lake with docks).

 

We had probably 150-200 campers per week and it was my job to administer the beginner swim test 50-70 kids per week.

 

The first week went well, after that I had to rescue/assist 1-3 kids (out of 50!!) every single week, during the swim test. In almost every case the problem occurred as soon as they jumped in the water.

Many of these kids probably COULD swim 25-50 yards, but couldn't handle jumping into deep water.

 

Of the 15 or so kids I rescued that summer only ONE insisted he really could pass the test, and accepted our offer of re-test.

 

The lesson here is that a VERY high portion of scouts are eager to be designated "beginner" swimmers before they are ready. They are so eager they are willing to risk their lives to do it.

 

Given that observed fact, I think the odds are high that many scouts will attempt to "pull a fast one" on their SM if the SM administers the swim test prior to camp.

 

 

 

Camp staff should personally test every camper wishing "beginner" classification, I don't care if B-P himself signed their card. If they are going to do that they might as well observe everyone's test.

(This message has been edited by LIBob)

[prairie]

Swim test (pool) was prolly the low point of summer camp for me, growing up I had years of Red Cross swim training, think I took their Lifeguard class three years in a row, always passed.

Plus dad took us to the local pool every other week at least and my troop had a deal with the YMCA 30 miles away to do winter swimming and lifesaving merit badge traing and testing. Needless to say being tested before camp would have suited me fine and we intend to test our scouts here shortly. A lake or river would be far different.

BTW I often got underrated because while I swim well I am very slow, small hands and feet, it was not the end of the world. However I can fall asleep doing the back-float.

 

 

[LIBob]

Knot Head wrote:

"I do wonder if a skilled adult who used to be a lifeguard could give this test for the purpose of a canoe trip. I started a thread with that question before I saw this thread."

 

The answer is "NO"

According to BSA SSD

http://www.macscouter.com/usscouts/safety/SSD_slides.pdf

 

"All swimming activity must be supervised by a

mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older

who . . . . is trained/committed to BSA Safe Swim Defense."

 

The course takes about 20 mintues plus 10 minutes for the quiz.

It can be found here:

https://myscouting.scouting.org/Pages/Home.aspx'>https://myscouting.scouting.org/Pages/Home.aspx

 

If that link does not work start at the training page here:

http://scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx'>http://scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx and click on Safe Swim defense

 

 

NOTE to lead an official BSA canoe trip you wil also need a leader who has taken "safety afloat" here

https://myscouting.scouting.org/Pages/Home.aspx

 

It also requires 30 minutes. Again if that link does not work try the training page

http://scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx

[Herms]

Personally, I (re-re-re-certified BSA Lifeguard) prefer to do the swim checks for our Troop before we get to camp. Besides the obvious reason of all the troops trying to get swim checks in when they show up on Sundays, I have the opportunity to look at a boys swimming ability in order to counsel them on whether they should take the Swimming MB or swimming lessons at camp.

 

I have watched many camp swim tests over the years. Usually there are so many boys in the water that the staff is just looking for "completed". I have watched boys "dog paddle" the whole thing and then see them in the Swimming MB where they struggle for the whole week and don't get the full value of the experience.

 

Similarly, if you review a boy's swimming who is thinking about Lifesaving, particularly his ability to side stroke, you can let them know if they are ready for that MB as well.