Proper Campsite Attire

[Albert_H]

So the week we were at summer camp last year had to have been the hottest week all summer. We're talking 100+ degrees during the day and 85-88 degrees at 9:00 to 10:00 at night; oh and very high humidity.

 

Some of our Scouts were going down to take cool showers before going to bed one night and came back and hung their towels on the clothes line and proceeded to get ready for bed. In the process, a few of them sat down with the other boys that were talking under the dining fly before going to bed - four boys sat there shirtless. We, the adults, were sitting accross camp in our adult area. One of our ASM's mentioned that he didn't think it was appropriate for the boys to be sitting around camp without their shirts on. Nothing further was said and no action taken. However, as we prepare for another camp experience, this ASM brought the whole thing up at last month's committee meeting. He is asking for a statement from the committee regarding this issue and wants a policy set. (this in a Troop that has no by-laws even)

 

All of our Scouts are instructed that they must wear appropriate attire when walking around camp. This includes shirts, closed toed shoes and pants or shorts (even when walking to/from the shower). That night, I'm confident that the boys came back from the shower with shirts on, but that's not even the question.

 

The question is whether boys can be without their shirt while in our campsite. In this case, they were in the process of getting ready for bed; brushing teeth and hitting the latrine one last time. So, it's not like it was all day, but was just a few minutes. Is that OK, or should we really make a specific policy for camp? And what about a 2:00 am stroll to the latrine, do they have to put a shirt on if they're sleeping without one? Our ASM isn't even sure we should allow them to sleep shirtless. Not sure how we could enforce that without violating G2SS...

 

Thanks,

Al

 

[evmori]

Considering the temperature was abnormally high, I don't see a problem. There are exceptions to every rule. Since it's you campsite, it's your call. When I'm camping in the summer I sleep in shorts only. If I have to take a stroll to the latrine in the middle of the night, I'm not tossing a shirt on.

[dylfrick]

I believe that in the camp site, late at night it should not be a problem. Walking around during the day without a shirt is a different story, and as camp staff we are told to get on people that don't wear shirts around camp. If it is in your camp site it is the SM's call as the SM has final say in the site.

 

[Albert_H]

Thanks for the replies...

 

I hope to get some more feedback as our Committee Chair wants my feedback before the Committee takes any action, if any. I really don't think anyone else (adults) have a problem at all with what happened. As a rule, you wouldn't normally walk into our campsite and find shirtless boys. Like was said it was extra hot and they were on their way to bed.

 

I'm trying to gather my thoughts and come up with a suggestion for our CC. I am an ASM not the SM, but have acted as Summer Camp SM for the last several years (our SM cannot take a week off in the summer). The ASM asking for action here is a new Scouter. His son joined Scouts just before camp last year, having never been in Cub Scouts or any other Scouting organization before.

 

Thanks for your additional feedback...

 

Al

[artjrk]

The only reference I could find:

"Appropriate attire. Proper clothing for activities is required. For example, skinny-dipping is not appropriate as part of Scouting."

 

I don't recall ever being told that being shirtless is inappropriate in a camping setting. I know health codes dictate shirts being required in dining areas. Practically speaking, shirts are recommended as a form of protection whether its from the Sun or insects. Personally I feel cooler wearing a shirt rather than not. I hate the feeling of sticky skin on sticky skin. But I don't know if it needs to be a dictated rule that shirts must be worn.

[Twocubdad]

My suggestion would be that this is not something which needs to be legislated by the troop committee. The leaders on the ground (youth and adult) are fully capable of dealing with this as needed. I would be more concerned with the direction this is setting for the committee micro-managing the troop.

 

Personally, I don't care to have guys hanging around the campsite without shirts and will ask them to put on a shirt if they are sitting around for an extended time. But getting dressed, going to the waterfront, heading to the shower, etc., is no big deal.

 

The situation you described is pretty ticky-tack.

[Kudu]

Al writes:

 

Our ASM isn't even sure we should allow them to sleep shirtless.

 

Adult-led much?

 

What's next, burkas at the waterfront?

 

Kudu

 

[ScoutNut]

I agree that this is not something the Committee should be taking a hand in. And to have the Committee dictating what apparel the boys sleep in - creepy is putting it mildly.

 

What did you say to this brand new, never been in Scouting before, dad, last year when he complained about the boys?

 

How has he been over the past year? Is he a micro manager in other ways with the boys? Has he been fully trained? Why is this such an issue for him?

[Twocubdad]

Yeah, I missed that, K. This guys is wrapped around the axle way too tight. Whose business is it what people sleep in? And how would you know without violating privacy? Believe me when I tell you not to peek in my tent.

 

There's "Camp" and there's "Campsite." Campsite is our dorm room for the week or weekend. If you're butt-nekkid, you need to be in the tent with the flaps closed. But if you're just changing into your uniform shirt and pants for dinner, who cares?

 

We're much more relaxed in the campsite than the camp. The camp has all the rules about shirts, shoes, hats in the dining hall, etc. I personally think the "no open-toe shoes" thing is silly. A couple years ago when Crocs became popular, it was upgraded to "closed-toe, closed-heel." Pure adult power trip.

 

World Jamboree was and education for me. The site was a fairly well-groomed grassy field. Most roads were paved or very well compacted ground. Consequently, most kids running around were wearing sandals, flip-flops or barefoot. You could always spot the Americans wearing 8-pound boots better suited for a summit attempt on K2.

[Albert_H]

Yes, I also don't think this is something that the Committee needs to handle, but it was brought up at the meeting and the Committee promised to respond by the next meeting. Since posting this last night, I have received two phone calls from Committee Members who also don't think this is something for them to even address. The Committee Chair also feels this way, that's why they want my input as the adult leading Summer Camp for the last 4 years.

 

As far as this guy being wound tight and micro-managing, he normally isn't that way. In fact, he normally doesn't even come on outings (only comes to meetings sporatically), but tends to make most Committee Meetings. When he is around he is generally quiet, but he does pitch in and is a help. His son is signed up for summer camp this year, but as far as I know, he (the ASM) is not going this year.

 

It was asked how we responded to him when he made the comment at camp last year; as I recall nothing was said. I think we looked at each other, shrugged our shoulders and perhapse grunted or something like that. Like I said, nothing more was said and no action was taken. As far as I know, the boys never heard anything about it.

 

When he brought this up at the Committee Meeting, I asked him how far he would like to see us take this, and asked him "what a boy does that sleeps without his shirt on and gets up to go to the latrine, do we make him put on a shirt at 2:00 am?". That's when he responded with his comment that he's not sure we should even allow them to sleep without a shirt on.

 

I really don't understand where he is coming from on this one, but I don't see the Committee doing much of anything as they really don't like to interfer with how we handle such things on an outing, they really view this as an issue for the PLC, SM, and/or ASM's to handle.

 

As far as being adult-led, I could see it going that way if the likes of this ASM were to be in charge, but as for now, things are very much boy-led.

 

Thanks,

Al

[moosetracker]

>>In fact, he normally doesn't even come on outings (only comes to meetings sporatically), but tends to make most Committee Meetings.

[oldsm]

Not a committee decision. Ideally, let the boys discuss it and come up with their solution. If you absolutely can't trust their decision, then it's up to the senior adult in charge at camp - that's you!

Tell the other adults that no shirts is OK, but draw the line at no pants!

Time to get unwound a bit - the whole Committee, too.

[John-in-KC]

My two cents:

 

This is pole vaulting over mouse turds. As long as the vitals are covered, no harm, no foul. Tell the CC you'll have the PLC discuss it, and the youth can make the decision.

 

For Pete's sake, it's the heat of summer! In this weather I'd probably have a gallon jug under the bunk to do a middle of the night cool-down sponge bath.

[CalicoPenn]

Hate to bring it up but there may be a much deeper issue here than micro-managing or control, and that's either a potential clash of moral values (where some see being shirtless to be the equivalent of being in league with the devil and others see it as no big deal) or (and I'll express it as delicately as I can) a fear that either he, or one of his fellow leaders, will see the shirtlessness in the boys as being a temptation that will lead someone into more nefarious activities with a boy. I hope that neither is the issue, but we can't discount that either are a possibility.

 

The best way to handle this is as others have suggested - drop it in the PLC's lap - let them make the decision.

[Eagle92]

WOW. This ASM wouldn't have liked my troop as we had a water station set up using the water faucet in the campsite and a garden hose. that and the 50 gal. "bathtube" we had in the campsite.

 

Definitely a PLC issue.