Citizenship and Communications MBs at Camp?

[Herms]

Heard that the summer camp we attended this year is planning on teaching Citizenship in the Community, Nation and World next year in addition to already teaching Communications. Was wondering what the general feeling is about this idea?

 

I don't know... I know the boys want it for advancement (and some Eagle mill SM's were also excited about the idea), but it just seems to me that these are the types of MB's best left at home; that while you are out in the woods the guys should have their minds on outdoor type MB's, maybe some conservation and just having fun instead.

 

Thoughts??

[eisely]

I am inclined to agree that summer camp should focus on offering MBs that are difficult to earn elsewhere. Having said that, if the customers want something else then summer camps should strive to offer what is being requested.

[Twocubdad]

Our camp offers these (plus Personal Fitness) but I won't sign a blue card authorizing Scouts in our troop to take them. (We had a long thread a couple months ago on whether or not a SM should do that, so I won't rehash it again.)

 

Aside from the dumb idea of going to summer camp just to sit in a civics lecture, I want the Scouts in our troop to earn a few MBs through their own inititive. You know, buy a book, call a counselor, make an appointment, go to the counselor's home or office, and work through the requirements individually. That's a key purpose of the MB program which camp and merit badge universities miss.

 

As is, I think the only Eagle MBs not available at camp are Family Life and Personal Management. To earn all but a few MBs in three years of summer camp isn't right. I don't think we ask too much of our Scouts to show a little individual initative in earning the seven MBs outside of camp.

[Eagle92]

Depending upon your view point, my council's camp also offers alot of the "paperwork" MBs I personally don't think it should be done as I also think the purpose of camp should be to #1 HAVE FUN and #2 do some of your harder advancement, i.e. nature, forestry, environmental science, pioneering, canoeing,etc. BUT you do have scouts and units that want that, and not just Eagle mills. One unit I know of is struggling to survive, and summer camp is their best chance to meet advancement.

[John-in-KC]

A couple thoughts here:

 

- We have folks who are members of the Far East Council, the TransAtlantic Council, and the International Council (those troops which are for ex-pats in the major capital cities around the world). SHAME ON THEM if those youth do not earn Citizenship in the World as part of their Scouting experience. I can see part of Scout Camp being set aside for an interntational cultural event, or an offsite trip to a significant museum, monument, government facility, or religious shrine.

 

- We do have camps which are relatively near State capitals, and where the predominant youth population come from rural areas. Which is going to get the kid more interested in Citizenship in the Nation? A trip to the local Ag Department field office, or a day trip from Scout Camp to the State Capital, dressed up in their full Class A uniforms? What about if an Air Force Base or an Army Post is close by?

 

I'm not saying teach the merit badge soup to nuts by any means, but one of our core values is to develop citizenship. Look for activities out of the box.

[boomerscout]

my own feelings are that camp mb should be the nature-conservation, the woodcraft (scoutcraft), the really messy or the noisy. Yet my own council camp offers the citizenships, athletics, etc. this is probably to get the older Scouts to keep coming to camp.

We suggest the citizenships for January through March. MB counselor likes to have about five at a time at the initial meeting(s)

Camp wide field trips cost more than you may believe

[Twocubdad]

Good point, JKC, if that opportunity is available. I've suggested several times our troop take the train to the capital and do a sleepover in a church basement or armory or somewhere. The local schools no longer go to the state capital, so there is much there that few of our boys have ever seen.

 

Unfortunately, our Scout camp is in the boonies. One of my objections to Cit/Nation is their visit to a Federal facility is the local post office -- a one-window affair with maybe 100 PO boxes. It's a joke. Drucker's Store would be a better trip.

[IM_Kathy]

I'm really torn about which way to side with this...

 

I do think summer camp should be geared toward the more "outdoors" and "skills" MB

 

BUT that being said my son is not into shooting or archary, is still scared to death of the climbing wall... and is getting close to completely most of the other MB's that are typically offered. He still wants to go to summer camp and will continue to go, but not having a MB he wants to do or needs to do may eventually make him think of not going.

 

so like I said I'm really torn... if offering those MB might get a boy who would not go to summer camp to actually go then offer away... if offering those MB doesn't it'll show by boys not signing up for those because they know that they can get those at home where as others they can't do except at summer camp.

[boomerscout]

IMKathy

with enough lead time, you can sometimes work out a special deal. some of our Scouts wanted to earn farm mechanics. This was a bit difficult as we are located in a metro area. we asked, and camp provided, a counselor for farm mechanics. they worked on the camps trucks, tractors, etc.

we did make a field trip to a nearby farm implement dealer-also arranged in advance. Our own parents drove our own Scouts to this, so other than checking for sufficient insurance, no big deal.

[desertrat77]

The citizenship series, comm, safety, etc., are best earned during those dreary winter days when even the most dedicated scout would rather be indoors.

 

Frankly, "indoor" MBs entail alot of activity that resembles homework...summer camp should be outdoor focused. Contrary to popular opinion, scouts don't need to be constantly running to and fro earning MBs to have a good summer camp experience. There should be free time to row a boat, throw the frisbee around the parade field, or go on a hike, even if--heresy--it doesn't lead to a MB or patch!

[Narraticong]

I agree their are at least two valid ways to look at this. At least in Michigan there is great competition among Scout Camps for attendance. There is little difference between in-council and out of council cost, so troops attend whichever camp appeals to them most for what they want to achieve. That may include the Citizenship and other "indoor" badges. So most camps offer them.

 

On the other hand, I learned another "new Scoutmaster" lesson this year. As the boys planned their merit badge schedules for this years camp, I was disappointed that my son had only scheduled three merit badges. He was taken Archery, Wood Carving, and Indian Lore. When we discussed it, he reminded that last year he had done the T-2-1 Pedro Patrol and had earned First Class. In addition he had earned five merit badges. In other words, his first year at Scout Camp he had worked his bottom off. This year he wanted to have some fun. In addition, he would be serving as SPL due to our SPL being on staff. Perfect logic from a 12 year old boy.

 

As it turned out, he was able to do some fishing, should rifles and muzzleloaders, work on a service project and just have some free time to "goof around". And did a fine job as SPL.

 

So yes, it is equally important for a boy to just have some fun at camp. Being in the outdoors and gaining some experience and enjoyment that way is an important part of our Methods.

 

So, I learned to is important to have each boy experience camp as he wants. I might make suggestions during one of my five minute Scoutmaster Conferences if I see things look lopsided. I would not likely refuse to sign blue cards if a boy loaded up with indoor badges.

 

What it comes down to is that the game belongs to the boys. Let them decide.

 

Ken

[Narraticong]

My apologies for the previous post! My fingers were obviously typing faster than my mind was working. The number of spelling and grammar errors is awful! That's what happens at 4:30 in the morning...

 

Ken

[eghiglie]

 

I would recommend against these badges at Summer Camp if possible.

 

As a SM and a MBC sometimes a boy or two who goes to a summer camp or a merit badge college will earn a partial on one these badges. Then they call a local MBC to help them finish.

 

Without retesting its clear that as we get to the later requirements that build on a early requirement they just don't know the information. Many times the worksheets are missing or very little is written on them.

[Lisabob]

I'm not a big fan of this. Most of the scouts from my son's troop who have done these badges at camp have not had a very good experience (and his troop attends a different camp every year so it isn't just one camp's program). I'm sure that there are camps out there who do these well, but I doubt they're the norm.

 

If it were up to me and scouts wanted to do these at camp, I'd want a lot of info from the camp in advance about exactly how these badges would be taught. The temptation to just sit the boys down and drone at them for several hours is particularly strong with these badges, I think.

[Eagle732]

Interesting that those who champion the boy led troop concept (and I'm all for it!) are also willing to tell the Scouts what MB's they can take and what ones they can't! Not me, if camp offers Cit. in Whatever and the Scout wants to take it then I say great, go for it! Would I rather them take Swimming or Lifesaving, sure but I'm not deciding for them what they should do. Maybe a suggestion but no mandates from me! What happens when you say no to the Scout that only needs these MBs for Eagle? Do you deny them? One troop I know of allows their Scouts to only take ONE required MB per summer camp. Is this acceptable or is it adding to the requirements?