Jet skis at summer camp

[shortridge]

I recently spotted an item posted on the BSA's official Facebook page:

 

"Did you know that the BSA has a pilot program where the use of personal watercraft (jet skis) is allowed at a summer camp?"

 

From an accompanying linked article (http://tinyurl.com/nwerh8), it looks like the Blue Ridge Mountains Council is one of the pilot sites.

 

Anyone have experience with this so far this summer, at Claytor Lake or other sites? What's your opinion? (I've never ridden on a personal watercraft, so I'm really just curious.)

[mmhardy]

I will say it a perfect Scouting activity. Teaching the safe use of PWCs should be included in the Motorboating merit badge thus I'm sure National is interested in how this pilot program will turn out.

[The Blancmange]

Jet skis are an absolute nuisance and Scouting should not encourage their use. I know someone is going to jump all over me about teaching responsible operation, but responsible operators of these things are so few and far between that I think misuse in inherent in the nature of the machine.

[CA_Scouter]

I've had a jetski for over a dozen years.

 

They are a nuisance to some people and an absolute kick in the pants to many more.

 

Seems a bit shortsighted to ban the craft due to misuse by a few idiots. You can extend that thinking to the bunch of drinking boat owners out there, or to cars, motorcycles, etc.

 

Its like most computer problems, the issue is between the keyboard and the chair, not the computer.

 

 

[The Blancmange]

I'd didn't suggest that they be banned. I'm not naive enough to think that is possible. But there are plenty of legal activities that we don't teach at summer camp or as part of merit badges.

 

I've been around the water, in small powerboats and canoes, for most of my life. I've seen my share of boaters who ignore the rules of right-of-way, slow or no-wake zones, and those who come too close to other vessels at high speed, just as I've seen my share of crappy drivers on the road. The difference with jet skiers is that the bad behavior seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

[shortridge]

To clarify, they are banned right now in Scouting.

[DeanRx]

Sounds like a fun and exciting addition to summer camp. Just a couple of thoughts...

 

Why PWC's and not actual power boats? Harder to fall off / out of a motorized boat than a jet ski. Easier to loose control of a jet ski. Seems it should be the other way around. Are scouts allowed to pilot power boats? We we're when I was a lad. I'm still in cubbies w/ my son, so I'll have to look that up on the G2SS online.

 

Also, if jet skis are OK on the water, WHY not ATV's / dune buggy's on land?

 

Scouts can ride in non-motorized aircraft, but cannot pilot a propelled plane. They can't drive a car as part of a scout outing. They can't drive ATV's or even paint ball. But an engine on the water... on one of the most unstable platforms availible.... yup... lets give that one a test run.

 

It sounds like fun. It really does. I just don't understand the logic behind the decision to allow PWC's before or in lieu of ATV's or personal motorized vehicles on land.

 

You can teach right-of-way and safe boating techniques in a sail powered craft very easily. The only teaching moment you create with a motorized craft is the "no wake" rule. While important, its not really something that takes practice... it just takes common sense and the knowledge to SLOW DOWN when you're supposed to.

 

I just don't see much gained by the risk involved in this one... and I'm one who is usually pushing for less stringent rules with regards to activities and the G2SS. If they want to run a power boat... let 'em put a trolling motor on the back of a row boat and have at it.

 

My 2 cents...

[prairie]

If some council wants this risk, good luck. I can see where one would make a fine rescue vehicle, would its use stay restricted to that?

It should not be a merit badge, otherwise we will soon have merit badges for motorcycle, atv, snowmobile, and car driving. I find it odd there is a merit badge for motorboating but then there are full page ads selling things related to this in the back of older Boy Scout Handbooks.(This message has been edited by prairie)

[GernBlansten]

Anyone checked on the liability insurance rates for PWC? Especially for minors? Can minors under 16 operate PWC in your state? Mine can't. That alone will kill the program.

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not so sure that a Driving merit badge with a Car and Motorcycle option is such a bad thing.

 

A requirement would be to volunteer in a hospital Emergency Dept for a total 24 hours on either Friday or Saturday night.

 

Might be the most valuable time ever spent

 

I know next to nothing about Jet Ski's , are they complicated to repair and maintain?

 

 

[GernBlansten]

A few years ago, I considered buying a boat rental business at our local marina. Sailboats, fishing boats, canoes and jetskis (PWC). The PWC were the hottest item, getting upwards of $50/hour and booked a solid 10 hours a day. The guy had a fleet of 10 PWC. But you couldn't get insurance on rental PWC. And the nutters who rented them beat the living tar out of them. So maintenance costs where high. They would ingest gravel, run into other objects, beach them on rocks, and break everything they put their hands on. You could get them to sign liability waivers for you, but that doesn't mean that little girl's family won't sue you too when the rental nutter runs over her near the swim beach with your rental craft (actual case). Basically, your business plan needs to be to just walk away from the business if something bad happens and hope they don't come after you personally.

 

Not so with fishing boats, paddle, canoe and sailboats. But they don't rent at a high enough rate nor bookings to make it work. Gotta have the jetskis.

[Knot Head]

I guess I'm a stick in the mud.

 

When I think scouting outdoor activity for a weekend or for summer camp I think canoes, kayaks, white water trips, snow skis, fishing, backpacking, camping, climbing, wilderness survival, etc. Yes we've done a troop water sports (water ski & wake board) merit badge activity but that is different IMHO than 10 guys going in 10 directions with a machine as loud as hades. I'd never want to go to a summer camp with jet skis (or go-carts) so I hope things like go-carts and jet skis don't catch on at summer camp.

[AlFansome]

Regarding ATVs, here's a post on Ray Warren's blog at Scouting Community regarding topics brought up at the last National Meeting. https://community.scouting.org/blogs/622774/archive/2009/05/21/national-annual-meeting-day-1.aspx

In the post, it's mentioned:

Today was the first day of the annual meeting.

Below are some notes I took during various sessions.

Innovation Council:

- The Innovation Council is testing the use of Personal Water Craft and ATVs.

So..it looks like it's being looked at(This message has been edited by AlFansome)

[Basementdweller]

An you guys complain about how much summer camp costs now. Throw in 10 jet skis and 10 atv's. Your talking 100k plus maintenance and fuel. We can't keep our cabins in decent shape. No way.

[Twocubdad]

Legal issues may be a problem here, too. Here, PWC operators age 12-15 must have a license (day-long class and pass test).

 

PWC have a place. I would think they would be a great advantage to an instructor with canoes or sailboats all over the lake.

 

Part of the issue with PWC are how they are used. Most folks aren't content to tootle around like a Sunday afternoon ride. All the fun is in jumping the wake of other boats and horsing around with other guys. The reason PWC insurance is so high is because the temptation to do stupid stuff on them is so great.