4 day summer camps

[eghiglie]

I just finished summer camp and it was great! It starts on Sunday and ends on Saturday AM. After a long drive home I got to thinking about a 4 day summer camp. Still start on Sunday but end on Friday AM to head home.

 

It would be great for many adults to get unpacked and then ready for work one day earlier.

 

Are any camps doing this?

 

Councils could save a lot of money doing this!

 

PS: When I was younger the camp in New York started on Sunday and ended the following Sunday AM.

[boomerscout]

camp should last the entire summer

[shortridge]

From a council's perspective, I don't know that much money would be saved, actually.

 

You might be able to get away with paying your staff less (though current salary levels are a travesty, IMHO), but you'd have to hire more of them to accomodate the crush of Scouts trying to finish merit badges in four days instead of five.

 

You wouldn't have to pay as much for food, power and utilities - though it's just 24 hours and three meals less than before.

 

But you'd have to lower your camp fees, unless the SE has some incredible chutzpah, and so wouldn't be bringing in as much money on the front end.

 

The only benefit I can see in such a change would be making it more convenient for parents and leaders who attend.

 

It seems to me it would actually shortchange the Scouts by trying to compress the program into four days. That cuts out a whole day that a shooter has to bring up his score on the rifle range, that a nonswimmer has to learn the sidestroke, that a BSA Lifeguard candidate has to master rescue techniques, that a sailing student has to figure out how to untangle those blasted lines... ad infinitum.

 

Perhaps if the council had an agreement to rent out the camp from Friday PM to Sunday AM to a private group, and thus get some income without having to pay staff, it would be gung-ho. But other than that, I don't see such a change being either necessary or desirable.

[desertrat77]

Four day camps would help busy adult schedules. But I think it would lessen the summer camp experience for the scouts. They need time to enjoy all that camp has to offer, including an hour or two of doing nothing but sitting around shooting the breeze.

 

The new scouts also need the time to learn some self sufficiency.

[John-in-KC]

WE ADULTS ARE NOT THE TARGET AUDIENCE OF SCOUT CAMP

 

Our youth members are the target audience.

 

I hope I've made my point.

[mbrownkc7]

I will give you a silver lining.

 

I get the attend the H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation in Osceola Missouri and the camp last for 10 days. That means I get to miss 7 days of work and some sessions the adults miss 8 days. Now that is tough on the old home front.

 

To be honest, I love it and so do the boys but on the 8th or 9th day, it starts to wear on you. The ten days are good for the boys. You really can't count arrival day and departure day. We also have a Visitors Sunday so you are down to seven full days of camp activities. It is a quality program that I loved as a boy and am getting to enjoy again as an adult watching my boys experience.

[GKlose]

I'm with boomerscout that camp should last the entire summer.

 

On the other hand, our council's camp is little different than your 4-day plan: arrivals are Sunday morning, but with checkin, setup and the camp tour, Sunday is pretty much shot. Program finishes up on Friday, with a family BBQ and closing campfire on Friday evening. Troops are not really encouraged to stay over Friday evening.

 

A long time ago, I worked at our local camp several summers. My own SM was program director and eventually camp director. It was on a Sunday to Saturday noon schedule, and there was a "family night" on Wednesdays. I was talking with my SM and he mentioned that he would really like to move the family night to Fridays but he was afraid that most parents would just want to take their scouts home after the campfire. As I recall, he said he couldn't do it because then the camp wouldn't qualify as a 6-day long-term camp because scouts wouldn't be staying over the 6th night. Jump ahead to years later, and that's exactly what happens at our camp, where it is really only 5-nights and 6 days.

 

Guy

[Lisabob]

I spent a lot of summers working at (non scout) camps. My experience was that it took about 3 days for most campers to adjust to their new surroundings and really get into things, let down their guards, and open up to new experiences. Days 4-6 were always better. By day 7, the youngest kids were ready to go home (by which I mean 7-9 year olds) but the older kids were fine. Most of our campers stayed for two weeks (or longer) and week two was a blast. That's when you really got to know the kids.

 

Of course, the camps I worked at, parents were not expected to stay with the kids, and that also changed the dynamic. Some scout troops I know have nearly a 1:1 ratio kids/adults at camp! (Which I think is more than a bit crazy, by the way) But shortening camp to just 4 days in order to accommodate adult schedules would be detrimental to the kids and the program, in my view.

 

If adult schedules become a problem, set it up so that one group of adults is there for the first part of the week, and a different group replaces them later in the week.

[eghiglie]

Thanks for the feedback. This idea came up because of what GKlose stated related to Family night.

 

The camp we were at designated Family day on Friday and the parents that came up took their kids home. Bear in mind that the Troop is small so when 3 of the 6 kids are gone the Saturday AM work fell to fewer people.

 

Because the kids signed out of camp early they did not get a camp patch (one boy lost his eligibility for Honor Camper) because of not staying in for six nights.

 

The other intresting thing is that when I received the advancement report from camp on Saturday the boys that left all had partials. The boys that stayed didn't. This is a coincidence of course.

 

[John-in-KC]

I'm also a member of Heart of America Council, and have spent a few summers at H Roe Bartle

 

Wanna know something? 10 day break has been a huge charge on my batteries through the years. My problem is other priorities are keeping me from attending camp, period.

 

I also object to parents pulling their kids on Friday night. Sounds to me like a Adult-Run Troop Method troop. The youth should set up camp as a group, and break down camp as a group.

 

My thoughts.

[Lisabob]

Not sure that it is a sign of an adult-run troop, so much as a sign of parents (who probably aren't scouters) not understanding the program. I think an SM or CC would be within their rights to tell parents up front long before leaving for camp - nobody goes home on Friday night so don't even think about it. (maybe phrases a little more diplomatically)

[John-in-KC]

You may well be right, Lisa. My mind is addled from spending this week memorizing test banks of questions and answers. It makes memory work for Confirmation look tame.

 

I'm going to go do something Scouting somewhere this weekend, or I'm gonna be nutso.

[moxieman]

Our Council Camp, and the camps adjacent to our council are five full days of programming: Monday through Friday. You check-in Sunday afternoon. You check-out Saturday Morning.

 

When I was in graduate school in Lubbock, TX, one of South Plains Council's two summer camps, Camp Tres Ritos is up in the Pecos Wilderness at an elevation of about 9,000 ft in the mountains, roughly 20 miles east of Taos, NM. They follow a similar schedule to Philmont, which is a modified 4 day program:

 

Arrive/check-in is on Sunday. You're welcome to arrive on Saturday, but you're on your own for food until Sunday evening meal. Many units do this to give their members a full day to acclimate to the higher elevation before any activities start.

Full activities Monday & Tuesday

Wednesday is "On your own day". You are offered a variety of day hikes in the mountains to choose from or you can drive your unit to Taos or even make the trip up to Philmont (60 miles away as the crow flies) and hit the visitor center. You are provided with a bag lunch to take with you where ever you go for the day.

Full activities on Thursday & Friday

Leave Saturday Morning--you're encouraged to wait until Saturday to leave as it's a 6 hour drive back to Lubbock from Camp Tres Ritos.

[momma_bee]

If my son came home on Friday, I'd need to miss a day of work to pick him up.

 

This would not help me.

 

When I went as a Scouter - I knew that my time would be rushed Saturday / Sunday to be ready to go back to work. I accepted that.

 

So, I wouldn't find any benefit from ending a day sooner.