Summer Camp Medical (signed only by Mom?)

[Lisabob]

Huh. Well at least now you know why she keeps an extra-close eye on her son. Probably being a "helicopter" mom makes a lot of sense to her and comes from having experiences where she has had to advocate for her son, considering his medical issues.

 

Glad to hear you were able to sort things out and that this boy will be able to go to camp and have a relatively "normal kid" experience. Scouting is great for that.

 

 

[scoutldr]

(I'd have an issue with someone who hasn't practiced in 20 years filling out a medical form. Medicine has changed a lot in 20 years.)

 

Maybe so...but I'm not stupid enough to accuse (or imply) that someone is incomptent and not qualified to sign a camp form. Not my job, nor am I qualified to stand in judgment. I'm glad that you feel that you are.

 

At least we know what the issues are. In this state, the parent has no duty to disclose the disabilities or diseases of their children, not even to the school that they attend. Take my word for it...assume that EVERYONE around you is HIV positive...even the kids at summer camp. My wife, the school nurse can vouch for that. They are being mainstreamed and may be bumping heads with your kids on the playground, and they don't have to tell.

[evmori]

In this state, the parent has no duty to disclose the disabilities or diseases of their children, not even to the school that they attend.

 

 

I would bet that is the case in most states. So if they don't disclose little Johnnies medical problems and the kids keels over on a camping trip because he ate a peanut, who is responsible?

 

[sandspur]

So, to the case at hand, I would suggest Mom (who knows the medical issue and is also a physician) type out a brief, clear guide to the adult leaders of the troop stating what (if anything) they should watch out for with this scout and what actions they should take if something should occur. It would be kept confidential among the leadership and not generally distributed. Copy the Summer Camp medical director. But realize she probably doesnt want the youth to know about this. I can sympathize with her position. She needs to protect her son more so than most of us, but also probably wants him to live as normal a life as possible. She might be conflicted over this to some extent.

Something similar occurred when we had a diabetic scout who was very hard to regulate. His father made sure the adult leaders knew about the condition and what his symptoms might look like, and what action we should take if it occurred. Dad (also a physician) went along on more remote camps with appropriate supplies but made sure we knew what was up so we didnt misinterpret something or fail to take proper action.

Everything worked out just fine. He is a wonderful scout and Dad became a troop asset.

You want to make sure the scout will be safe but also do all you can to see that he enjoys as much of the scouting experience as possible. Explain this to her and come at it from the point of view of the best thing for her son on both counts and it may not only solve this issue but help with the helicopter parent thing too.

 

[shortridge]

"I would bet that is the case in most states. So if they don't disclose little Johnnies medical problems and the kids keels over on a camping trip because he ate a peanut, who is responsible?"

 

That's why we have the medical form to begin with.

 

If the parent knows of a life-threatening allergy but doesn't list it in the space provided on the form, that's got to be negligence of some kind.

 

The illegibility would be the red flag for me. If my child had serious health issues, I'd darn sure want to make sure that the leaders could read what I wrote!

[OldGreyEagle]

Usually hydrocephalic children are at least slow to develop and may have other issues as well. This is a tempting target for bullies so I can see the impulse to be a helicopter parent and applaud her for letting him go to camp. Hopefully it wil be a good experience.

 

Just a thought, I have seen many hydrocephalic children, anyone know an adult who was hydrocephalic?

[GernBlansten]

My 87 year old auntie is hydro-cephalic. Toughest old Norwegian farm girl you'd ever meet. Pretty good bridge player too.

[SctDad]

There are a lot of good points here. But I think that the major issue I would have is being able to read it. Ask her to fill out a PDF. She may understand.

 

Why does it matter how long she has been out of practice when she is filling out her sons medical form. It is a basic physical exam.

 

OGE had a good point. Has anyone looked to see if there is any help needed at the Camp Health Lodge. Maybe they could use a phhysician on staff.

[shortridge]

SctDad wrote: "Why does it matter how long she has been out of practice when she is filling out her sons medical form. It is a basic physical exam."

 

The form says health care professionals must be certified and licensed. If she's not licensed, no dice. Simple enough to find out.

[DeanRx]

A couple points to ponder:

 

1) The form states the practitioner must be certified and licensed... it does NOT say "in good standing". As one who does practice, most states (unless the license has been revoked) still considers someone to be licensed even if they are under investigation, stayed, or on suspension. Most practitioners can remain "licensed" even in an inactive manner (costs less per year to renew). They cannot legally practice untile they bring their licensure out of inactive status and make up any and all CE credits required by their given state. Maybe she falls into that category, if she's not working? Does that mean she cannot sign the form? What about DC's and Pharm.D. that have collabrative practice agreements (just as NPs and PAs do) - can they sign? According to the form, no - but they have the same credentials as the NPs and PAs. BSA took NONE of this into account when developing the form. They only want to have a practitioner to lay the blame on if something happens to the scout or scouter said practitioner signed the form for. They want to "share the risk" - thats all. True - most states have web sites where one can verify such data. However, WHO THE HELL IS TAKING THE TIME TO VERIFY ALL THIS ON EVERY MED FORM TURNED IN ON A SCOUT? If you're not doing it for all - you sure as sh*t shouldn't be singling her out just because she chose to sign both lines.

 

2) Is the unit (or the camp for that matter) reviewing and returning ALL illegible copies back to be filled out again? If not - then once again, I ask why should SHE be signled out for this additional scrutiny? Because she's a pain in the *ss parent? Does that make it justified?

 

Heck - any parent can fill out the form and sign a fake MD's name to the thing. The form doesn't even ask for a state lic. #, an NPI, or any other ID credintial (DEA or otherwise). All it asks for is the printed name, a signature, an office address and office phone. Any patient of mine can get that right off the front of ANY prescription they carry out of the office. There's not even a requirement for an office stamp to be provided. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of these being done for an office copay, are being done by the RN and rubber stamped anyways. Are those any more valid, if the scout being evaluated doesn't even see the doctor?

 

The way BSA has this form written and set-up its not worth the paper its written on and certainly not worth whatever amount they paid to their lawyers that advised them that it would mitigate risk and cover their collective *sses for campers' injuries any more than they have been covered in the past.

 

Just one more "hoop" that national decided everyone has to jump through to send kids off to camp. Most likely because NOT having the form would result in a higher premium (or a higher than normal annual increase in premium) on their unbrella insurance policy. Some dumb smuck at an insurance agency convinced a lawyer that BSA could save $$ on overall premiums if they passed this policy, so it got passed. The form is stupid and could be accurately filled out and submitted my anyone with 2 years of LVN training.

 

You guys are splitting hairs over something that doesn't even matter. If this mom is going to sue, she's going to sue.... signing a stupid form absolves BSA from nothing, just gives their lawyers something to hide behind and someone else to lay blame on if, God forbid, something happens to a scout and the sh*t hits the fan.

 

Don't even get me started on the HIPAA implications (and lack thereof) of ANY HIPPA disclosure statements on the forms. Yet they'll happily collect them up and pass them via 4 or 5 changes of hands before they are deposited with the camp medical officer.... NO HIPAA privacy violations there.... nooooo. I'd be much more concerned about that than a purposefully misrepresented medical form turned in by a parent in good faith. What about the jr ASM that happens to be collecting the forms at camp and now knows that little Johnny is on Ritalin and takes DDAVP to combat bedwetting symptoms? Then razzes Johnny about it while at camp? Bingo - there's a potential 25K fine from the federal government for every occurance of protected health information unauthorized disclosure.

 

You want to be afraid of lawsuits - be afraid of those handling / mishandling the INFORMATION contained on this very poorly written document. I wouldn't want to be a camp medical director the way things are currently configured... there's not enough pay for me to buy enough malpractice insurance to cover the possible HIPAA violations. Foreget about the malpractice for an injured scout - I can deal with / mitigate that. I can't mitigate what multiple folks do or don't do with private health information before its stored in my shop at camp. There's the real risk being run.... and for what?

 

The form is crap - I wouldn't use it to replentish the TP in the camp latrines.

[SMT224]

Thanks for all the replies...

 

We took care of the illegibility issues via telephone call and have clarified questions on the medical form. Once we get to summer camp, I will ensure the camp medic fully understands this kids issues. And if any health related problems arise, I'll be on the phone to Dr. Mom immediately.

 

He's a nice kid, and I hope he has fun at camp. Scouting may turn out to be the best thing for him. At this point, I think the best we can do is keep a close eye on him and hope for the best.

 

Nevertheless, I've just got that feeling somewhere down in the pit of my stomach about this one...

[evmori]

If you're not doing it for all - you sure as sh*t shouldn't be singling her out just because she chose to sign both lines.

 

Why not? You have a form that no one can read and a kid with a lot of medical problems and a mom who signed as parent & physician. How often does this happen? Probably not too often.

 

I really abhor the "if you do it for one you have to do it for everyone" attitude! It's right up there with zero tolerance policies. No room for something out of the ordinary.

[SMT224]

We check all the medicals before summer camp to ensure everything has been filled in correctly, that both the physician and parent have signed and dated the form appropriately, and none of the key items have been left blank. This one raised a red flag because of the illegibility issue and then that the mom had signed both places.

 

Many many summer camps ago, when the camp medic was checking the forms, he noted that none of the immunization dates were filled in for one Scout... who's mom, by the way, was a physician! I spend the next hour finding a place that my cell phone worked and getting the appropriate information from this kids physician! After that painful incident, we vowed to thoroughly check each and every medical form before departure.

[shortridge]

Dean,

 

Thanks for the insight and perspective. One observation, though: My understanding is that HIPAA only applies to certain health care providers. So it would apply at the doctor's office and the insurance company. But it wouldn't appply to the unit-serving Scouters in between who might have handled the form, as in your example of a JASM tormenting a bed-wetting Scout. The parent or guardian turned that information over voluntarily, after all.

 

I'm not so sure whether it would apply to a council or camp health officer. One of the qualifying questions has to do with sending certain health care-related transactions electronically. Would a council camp bill an individual for health care rendered by a health officer?

[sandspur]

Certified and licensed (as required by the form) does not mean you need to be in active practice. It is easy to maintain a license, even getting required CE, but not practice. It is certainly possible Mom is certified and licensed even if she is not in an active practice.

And it is true filling out the form does not require extensive expertise. I have seen some MDs do it as part of a well-performed physical, others barely glance at it. Some just have someone in their office fill it out and stamp it.

And yes, I am willing to bet that some parents, having filled out school physicals, sports physicals, and scout physicals who are told the local council camp has their own form which must be signed and submitted in addition to the BSA form just sign the darn thing Dr. Smith themselves to avoid another trip to the office and charge.