Choosing Your Council Camp

[Eagle732]

Some questions about deciding on a summer camp.

 

1. Do you always attend your council camp for summer camp?

2. Do you feel obligated to support your council camp by attending summer camp there instead of going out of council?

3. Do your Scouts decide on which camp to go to or is it a given that you will attend your council camp?

4. Do the adults in your troop have a say in the decision? If so why?

[Ohio_Scouter]

"Some questions about deciding on a summer camp.

 

1. Do you always attend your council camp for summer camp?

2. Do you feel obligated to support your council camp by attending summer camp there instead of going out of council?

3. Do your Scouts decide on which camp to go to or is it a given that you will attend your council camp?

4. Do the adults in your troop have a say in the decision? If so why? "

 

Eagle732,

 

1. Our Troop doesn't always attend our council summer camp.

 

2. Our Troop doesn't always feel obligated to support our council camp by attending there instead of out-of-council camps for several reasons. First, attending the same summer camp every year can get stale. Many times the program is the same as prior year's program, and often the boys don't get to experience anything new. Secondly, sometimes in the past, our council hasn't done a very good job of providing a top-notch summer camp experience, e.g., merit badge program and schedules were fairly limited/inflexible, the camp didn't provide for patrol cooking, etc. Although I do notice that this trend has been improving recently over time.

 

3. We let our scouts choose their summer camp each year, but we do provide tons of information about all available summer camps in the area, including our own council camp, to help the scouts make an informed choice.

 

4. The adults in the troop do have a say because sometimes scout choices can be unreasonable. Imagine that! For example, we try to keep the possible choices within a reasonable mileage radius from home so that scout parents don't have more than a couple hours drive to attend parents' night activities.

 

This seems to work pretty well for our Troop. I'm sure you'll get several other excellent responses from the rest of the forum as well.

[VigilNavyCPO]

Being in New England there are several Council's Scout summer camps within a three hour drive. My current Troop has a policy of attending our local Council's Camp every other year, to provide the Scouts a sense of "homebase" and let the Scouts choose "within reasonable distance" where to go alternate years for a sense of adventure and change. The downside of this policy, is the local camp has recently had a string of bad camping seasons (ie program) and our Scouts currently do not want to return. Some local Troops near ours refuse to attend locally due to poor program, which I realize will not help the local camp recover. Some long time Scouters locally blame Council for how poor the local camp is in program and resources, saying for many years council has used camp as a cash cow, and they are willing to promote other Council's camps because they are run better.

[eagle77]

we have not attended our council in 10 years, camp is over crowded, over priced and a merit badge mill. We go to other camps, but do not go to the same one back to back. The adults and PLC help select the camps, those that meet our requirements are then voted on by the entire troop, the winner is where we will go. In order for camps to qualify they must offer enough variety and programs for the different age groups, a first year program is not really necessary because we do not use them, we run our own first year. There must also be some more challenging activities for the older scouts. We will also listen to others at RT and camporees as to what their expierences were at different camps. Distance is not really a problem either.

[Hal_Crawford]

Our troop is definitely in the minority of those posting so far. We do go to one of our council camps, Camp Bowman at Goshen Scout Reservation. We do not feel obligated to our council but it has been a tradition and our troop has been there every year since the camp opened in 1967. Few things are constant in this world but in our troop we have the Scout Oath, the Scout Law and week one at Bowman.

 

In my 10+ years with the troop it has not been questioned or put to a vote by adults or the PLC. We have 90% or better participation regardless of age so I think that speaks to the level of satisfaction with the camping experience.

 

Last year we also had scouts participate in the Lenhok'sin High Adventure program at Goshen. There was concern that the backpacking trek would undercut attendance by senior scouts at Bowman but all those who did LHA also chose to do Bowman. We are seeing similar results this year.

 

Bowman is somewhat unique in that it is a 7 day, patrol cooking camp with an emphasis on traditional scout skills. IMHO it is not a merit badge mill. I believe that view is shared by most who regularly camp there. For our new scouts, it is often the boot camp of the patrol method.

 

Is it stale? Maybe but the scouts don't seem to think so. Are we missing out by not doing more variety? Maybe, but this has worked and the high adventure program is adding other opportunities.

 

We will probably look at some different high adventure opportunities in the coming years. Lenhok'sin will probably disappear if the Jamboree gets built at Goshen. Scouts are talking about Philmont and the new high adventure site in WVa.

 

Under the current plans Bowman will remain but who knows how that will turn out or if it will be so changed that we are forced to look for greener pastures. We don't know if it will even be open in Jambo years.

 

For now, it works for us as it has for the last 42 summers.

[Lisabob]

1. We don't have a boy scout summer camp program in our council.

2. If we did, I think we'd likely go out of council every couple of years anyway. Currently we alternate years between a "far away" summer camp and a "nearby" summer camp (within a roughly 200 mile radius from home). The boys enjoy experiencing different camps, but it would be nice to have a base camp to return to every couple of years.

3 & 4. Up though this year, the SM and CC have chosen 4-6 camps they are willing to go to, and the boys pick from them. The SM is open to more input into the process though. I'm ambivalent about the way we do this (would like it to be more in the boys' hands), but I understand why the adults want to have a strong voice in setting the options.

 

 

 

 

[resqman]

The adults present 3 choices to the PLC along with some information. They are encouraged to seek additional information. We have only repeated camps once in the past 7 years. We have not been to the council camp in the past 7 years.

 

Usually the troop pays the registration to all 3 camps around December to ensure a slot the designated week. Then when the PLC chooses, we cancel the loosing 2. We always go the same week because that is the only week that year round and traditional school is off for everyone. That eliminates one excuse not to go.

 

This year no one paid the fees early. The first choice was not available the magic week. We are going to the council camp this summer because they had an opening the magic week. Council just spent millions updating the camp. New dining hall, new toilet/shower houses, new climbing/cope area, etc.

 

The drawback is it is only 1.5 hour drive and parents might be tempted to drop by midweek. We strongly discourage parents from visiting because it usually means boys all of the sudden become home sick and end up going home with mommy and daddy. We pick camps within a 5-6 hour drive radius, preferrably near the mountains so it is a tad cooler. Typical temps in the summer are 95 with 95% humidity. Mountain camps generally have lower humidity and are 10 degrees cooler.

[Eagle732]

 

1. For the last 3 years we have attended our council camp.

2. As the SM and a firm believer in supporting Scouting in my area I believe in supporting our camp. If we don't support and attend our camps we will loose them.

3. I ask our Scouts if they want to come back at the end each summer camp, so far they've wanted to.

4. The adults have more to say about this than just about any other decision made on camping. The camp is about 5 minutes from our meeting place, in fact I can see the camp from my home. The parents who come and help during camp week appreciate being able to go home when they need to or go to work during the day and help out during the evenings.

 

I have a good friend who is the SM of my old troop, the one he and I were in as kids. From 1967 to the present they have gone to this camp and stayed at the same site during the same week every year. That's over 30 years! I asked the SM if they had ever thought of going somewhere else. His answer was yes, they had thought about it and discussed it with the Scouts but every time the decided that this camp had everything they needed and so they keep coming back.

[jtswestark]

Were with Hal: 2nd period at Seven Ranges, reliable as the sun coming up.

1. Weve gone to the same council camps since chartered in 1967 always going the same week. They closed the first two, now were on our third. But we have changed campsites due to growth in the troop and a better location opened up.

2. Not obligated, no pressure needed. We love our camp plus we have a Camp Honors program called Pipestone that is unique and a part of our troop traditions. It is a five year program and the guys dont want to miss a year, for anything else. 14% of the Scouts that start attend all five years, about 25% of those come back for a sixth year, believe it or not. I myself went to the current camps predecessor for 7 years as a kid, my son will be on his 7th this year (two were on staff).

3. & 4. We dont ask the Scouts as we dont consider going elsewhere. If anyone does want to then they can go a second week provisional wherever they want, which only a few have done. Yes, there are a few things Id like to see our camp add that others offer, but I just cant imagine summer camp away from our 7R. I had an irritating transplant ASM a few years back that just couldnt get over it that we returned to the same camp for all of his two years he was with us. No matter how he tried he couldnt rally anyone on the committee to support him. Was glad when he took his next transfer.

 

 

Jack Smith

Scoutmaster, Troop 935

Buckeye Council, Ohio

 

 

(This message has been edited by jtswestark)

[Horizon]

We rotate through 4 camps, and hit our Council once every four (about to move it to 5).

 

We started the rotation the year our Council Camp cancelled our reservation so that the LDS troops could have an LDS Scout only week.

[Eagle732]

That would be enough to make me stop attending the camp. Our camp has a policy of giving units using a specific camp site first choice on reserving it on the same week for the next year.

[desertrat77]

As a UC in a council that does not have it's own camp, the troop I serve goes to a different camp each year. Lots to choose from in the local area.

 

To summarize my past experiences in several different councils: if it at all possible, I'd recommend supporting your council's camp, as long as it is a good value and the staff does its dead-level best to provide a solid program. Benefits: Building tradition, shared memories, and keeping the camp alive.

 

But, if the staff is indifferent, the program stale, or the council doesn't value your business (as in Horizon's case) I'd recommend looking elsewhere.

 

Loyalty is a great concept, but the council has to meet you in the middle.

[TAHAWK]

"1. Do you always attend your council camp for summer camp? "

No. Unfortunately, staff is weak, and that results in poor program. For Troops that eat in the dining hall, food has been poor, hitting a new low last year with mouldy bread and spoiled milk (but cheaper because purchased out-of-date). A different Camp Director and different Program Director each year does not help, expecially when they have been very junior paid Scouters with no clout to even tie the struggle with the bean-counters in upper management who make profit the supreme goal. There is no tradition of Staff service.

 

"2. Do you feel obligated to support your council camp by attending summer camp there instead of going out of council?"

No. Council is to serve the Scouts, not the other way around. We have done more than our share of service projects at the camp and contributing money. We have furnished adult staffers. But we draw the line at writing off summer camp for the Troop.

 

"3. Do your Scouts decide on which camp to go to or is it a given that you will attend your council camp?"

DNA

 

"4. Do the adults in your troop have a say in the decision? If so why?"

Scouters present several choices to the leaders for the years we attend a Council's camp. Every other year, we run our own summer camp. Thus far, we have encountered ups and downs -- usually strong program areas with the exception of Scoutcraft or waterfront. Two camps had weak Scoutcraft AND weak and dangerous waterfront. We have encountered many Merit badge mills. So we are trying yet again this year to find a "home."

[scoutmaster52]

1. Do you always attend your council camp for summer camp?

The boys make the decision as to where to go.

2. Do you feel obligated to support your council camp by attending summer camp there instead of going out of council? No, if the boys feel that something is lacking then thy wont choose it.

3. Do your Scouts decide on which camp to go to or is it a given that you will attend your council camp?

At scoutcamp the troop gathers on Thursday night to discuss how the week is going. At this time starting with the youngest Scouts we dicuss whats important to them in a Scoutcamp and whats not. Our committe is then charged with finding camps within a radius and presenting them to the troop to vote.

4. Do the adults in your troop have a say in the decision? If so why?

The adults try to keep the camps within a reasonable driving distance, usally within 4 hours. We also try to make sure the camps have programs for all those going.

[imasoonerfan]

Some questions about deciding on a summer camp.

 

1. Do you always attend your council camp for summer camp?

Our Troop has not been to our Council camp in 10 years. Until recently the place was run down and the program was horrible. Currently we are in the middle of a $10,000,000 capital campaign for camps and they have several new buildings and a new program director. Things are looking up.

 

2. Do you feel obligated to support your council camp by attending summer camp there instead of going out of council?

Yes and no. I would like to see the boys give it a try. They refuse to do it based on old opinions in the Troop. Only two boys who transferred from other Troops have been there and they were new Scouts when they went. Not a real first hand opinion in the group.

 

3. Do your Scouts decide on which camp to go to or is it a given that you will attend your council camp?

The boys decide. For that reason we are going 700 miles from home in a week at nearly double the cost. The parents did not like that and attendance is down. I advised them if they want to stay closer to home they need to prep their Scout at home before he comes to vote.

 

4. Do the adults in your troop have a say in the decision? If so why?

To a very minor degree. Since we live in Oklahoma there is no way we are going to camp in Maine. They can choose Maine but I would bet that there would be no adults willing to sign up for that drive. We try to help them make an educated decision but the decision is still theirs.