SM decides what merit badges a scout will take

[acco40]

Many troops put on their own type of "First Class / First Year" troop program for new Scouts so they'll get what they need from the troop. Also, yes, sadly, many pathfinder programs are not up to par.

 

If the Scouts mother gave you the Scouts choices - follow them, don't make them defensive. You gave them info on the pathfinder program. You've done your part. Why go against the wishes of the mother and Scoutmaster?

 

I'd also recommend that the new Scout attend a few of your troop meetings before summer camp to become familiar with the boys. Also, if it's anything like the summer camp's I've attended, nothing is set in stone anyway.

[Twocubdad]

Sorry, but I don't think it's your call. If you think the kid is going to be a distraction to your troop, then politely decline to take him with you.

 

It's not your place to talk with the other SM about his program, short of the basic info you need about the particular Scout. Maybe he is running an Eagle mill. But maybe he's reasonably considered the camp program and how it works with his troop's program and thinks this route is in the best interest of his Scouts.

 

Our first year Scouts take MBs at camp. We don't think much of the council's first year program. We suggest our first year guys take First Aid and Swimming (which go a long way toward T-2-1 requirements) and then a couple entry level MBs (Weather, Reptile Study, handicraft stuff). If I get invited for that "friendly cup of coffee" I'll get a to-go cup and, in as a friendly and Scout-like manner as I can muster, I'll tell you to kindly mind your own business.

 

It cuts both way. If one of my Scouts wanted to go to camp with the local Eagle Mill troop, I have no doubt that they will talk bad about me. "Can you believe the nerve of Twocubdad! He tells his Scouts what MBs to take! He won't let them take citizenship or Communications! Who does he think he is?"

 

I occasionally get "the talk" from the camp director about "supporting" the first year program. We're not supporters, we're customers. When their product is to our liking, we will buy. We tried it a couple years ago and it was a disaster. We had several adult ASMs volunteer to help in the area and they all vowed "never again." Staffing is the problem. The boys who work that area are always the newest, first-year staffers. Every few years they seem to get their act together, but there's no consistency. Consequently, I can't know in March, when we sign up for classes, what the program is going to look like in June. Maybe when they get a first year area director who sticks around and develops a staff they can build on, we'll reconsider.

[gwd-scouter]

And there's where we will disagree. First year campers take first aid and swimming merit badges which goes a long way in satisfying the T-1st class requirements. Problem with that is, the first requirement for first aid merit badge is that a scout has completed his first aid requirements to first class. Don't have so much of a problem with swimming merit badge the first year, but not as an end run around actually doing the Tenderfoot to first class requirements. I get very tired of folks combining activities to satisfy requirements in an effort to race along the advancement trail.

 

Sorry, but this is a real sore spot with me.

 

Edited to add: Oops, hijacking my own thread.

 

(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[Twocubdad]

Not as much disagreement as you may think. It's a bit nose-holder for me too.

[John-in-KC]

gwd,

 

There's nothing wrong with a SM having her/his own thoughts on how the Advancement method happens. That's part of your vision for the Troop. When another SM asks that a kid provisional to you, he really should fall in on your expectations (which should be shared values, if not the other SM is not doing all the research he should be doing).

 

??? How good is your Council's T-2-1 first year program??? Does this other SM really have a leg to stand on, in your opinion?

[gwd-scouter]

I think the criticism of our council's first year camper program is valid from some SM's viewpoints. Other SMs I know think it's a marvelous program and all their new scouts go through it.

 

The program covers most of the T-1st class requirements during the week. Knots and lashings, fire building, swimming, nature, first aid, and so on. All the while combining games with learning. From the viewpoint of all the boys in our Troop that have participated, it's a lot of fun.

 

Here's where SMs differ on the program. Literature from camp makes it clear that the scouts are not signed off on any requirements. It is up to the troop to do that. But, some troops do count it as a signoff and credit the boys with everything. Then, when the guys can't actually perform any of the skills on a campout they blame the lousy pathfinder program. From my experience, it's not that the boys aren't learning anything in the program, it's that it isn't being reinforced back in their troop.

 

For example: during the week after evening activities are finished and we have a couple of hours in the campsite, we ask the guys if they have anything they'd like to demonstrate. They always do - especially starting a fire. If a scout camp demonstrate a skill, he gets signed off.

 

I realize my post came off a bit strong. If SM doesn't like the pathfinders and wants his scout to do merit badges for the first year, that's OK. Not my call. It really does come down to me wanting this scout to have a great first year at camp and concern about him being on his own during the day without a couple of pals to hang with.

 

 

[Mafaking]

 

 

We follow the same practice as gwd. Just because the scout comes home with a print out of all the things he has done at the T-2-1 program doesn't mean he gets automatically passed on all those. The SM's sit down and tests the scouts on the requirements before signing off. We discuss how to hike down a road, how to prepare for a campout, have the scout show us the knots. If the scout is deficient in some skills we advise him to go back to his PL, book or other and re-familiarize himself with these skills.

 

Its difficult to expect a scout to be proficient at everything in a program designed for a year or more but crammed into a week long high intensity program. However, we have all our first year scouts go through the T-2-1 program so that the scout is exposed to these skills, and its a orientation course for the new scout. Flag protocols must be observed, scout salutes, scout signs, these are all expectations that the scout will need to know beyond the technical skills listed in the scout handbook. As we like to believe, scouting is greater than the sum total of the skills listed in the handbook.

 

 

Lisabob is spot on. There is a high likelihood of a melt down with a scout put into MB classes with older scouts doing skills beyond his ability. At least in the T-2-1 program he would be around scouts who are truly his peers. The other SM program may work for him because all the troop's new scouts are in the same MB classes. He essentially creates his own first year program. He likely assigns an ASM to follow the New Scouts around to the various MB classes. This practice is often requested by the camp director that at least one adult tag along with their T-2-1 scouts. Gwd, I doubt that you planned to bird dog this scout through his MB classes.

 

Gwd, if you feel strong enough about this you could push that a guest scout in your troop follow your troop's program.

 

 

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Whatever camp we go to each year, we always take advantage of their new scout program. Most camps ask that you provide someone to help ride shotgun on the class. One of our NS ASM's is going to camp this summer and will provide this help. This gives him the opportunity to evaulate the strength of the program so we can fill in any gaps and make sure they actually meet the requirements rather than just getting them rubber stamped.

 

A side note, while we don't let it dictate our own new scout program in the troop (we typically get 15 to 20 new scouts per year), we do take a look at what the summer camp program covers and focus on other requirements back home.

[NWScouter]

On the requirement for First Aid that they have completed the t-1st class requirements, I've seen camps handle it these ways. First day of Class a review and catch up session, a special session for those who need it that night, first day of Pathfinders focus on first aid, and the best, encourage the troops and their boy leadership to work with the scouts that need it that first day in camp.

[gwd-scouter]

I got the merit badge list for our visiting scout. Good easy fun stuff for his first year. He is signed up for swimming, which sometimes is difficult for our first year campers. Mostly because while they may be proficient swimmers in a pool, they lose it when it comes time to jump in the very cold lake.

 

Have been corresponding with his Mom and he did come visit us for a little bit the other night before going to his own Troop's meeting. I think he will have a good week with us.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Glad to hear it. Keep us posted. I was just thinking about this the other night when I had provisional scouts on the brain, and was wondering what was up with this scout.

 

Have a Great time at camp!(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[mbrownkc7]

What i think is ironic is that a lot of people preach that it should be the boys decision on what badges he takes but in the same breath they seem to be telling the boys they must take the 1st year campers program. Shouldn't this be up to the boy also?

 

I don't care what the boys chooses but I try to help him pick classes that he will enjoy and be successful in. I believe swimming, handicraft badges, and some at the eco lodge work well. These are classes where he will see a lot of 1st year campers also. If he wants to attend the 1st years camper program thats fine also but honestly in the last 3 years at camp we have not had one boy complete it. They all come back after a couple of days and say how boring it is.

 

I personally think the boys should be given more free time to explore trails, caves, and the wilderness. This is coming from a person who spent many years at scout camp as a kid and now is looking forward to his forth year as a adult leader. Can't wait to get back to H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation in Osceola, MO.

 

Have Fun!