TheScout Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I thought Kudu's comment was funny and perhaps a bit valid. I guess you can't offend the kitchen staff love-fest either. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Funny until you come to the realization that Kudu never passes up an opportunity to denegrate the BSA, the current program or Wood Badge even in threads where those things are not the main topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKlose Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 I don't know...I'm not the least bit offended by Kudu's comments, and I took them as sarcasm. As an overly-sarcastic person myself, I know firsthand that good, biting sarcasm always has at least a bit of truth in it. He's got a point, but on the other hand, there are hundreds of scout camps that have dining halls and kitchen staffs. I was on kitchen staff back in the 70s, long before WB/21C Police were around :-). After my last "tour" at camp, I visited another camp in an adjacent state, to see some old friends. I stayed for a good portion of the week. That camp was much more rustic than the one I came from, and it was all patrol-based. A central commissary doled out food two or three times a day. But there was still a central kitchen (albeit a small one), with a single cook, to feed camp staff. During the time I was there, the camp director (who had been program director of my home camp the first year I worked there) asked me to cover for the camp cook twice, during scheduled time off that would have normally been covered by another staff member. No problem at all...I was more than happy to assist in any way I could. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 SR540Beaver, If everyone kept on topic in every thread, we'd have five-reply threads all the time. I've seen other posters be far more negative toward aspects of the program than Kudu, and I include myself in that category. Personally, I found Kudu's comment to be a good and constructive reminder that there are alternatives to dining halls. However, I think it's safe to guesstimate that the number of camps these days that encourage units to do patrol cooking is significantly less than those that offer only the dining hall option. Before the dining hall was built, my old camp used to rely on heater stacks, prepared and assembled by the support staff to keep the food hot and carted to each campsite by Scouts. So each troop ate separately. The only meals served in a group setting, under a big top tent, were dinners on Sunday and Friday nights. That gradually shifted to dining hall eating, and the size of the kitchen staff grew as a result. When you go from having zero utensils to wash to having 400 forks to run through the washer, three times a day, that changes the job substantially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudu Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 "Funny until you come to the realization that Kudu never passes up an opportunity to denegrate the BSA, the current program or Wood Badge" By definition the "current program" is just a phase, and Wood Badge is a fickle follower of fashion. To put things in perspective, only twelve years ago Wood Badge Internet readers used to call my Council's office to report that our Troop wore nylon zip-off cargo pants, experimented with breathable nylon Scout shirts, and recommended that we eliminate clown-colored patches! Holders of the new "one minute manager" Wood Badge are so lazy in comparison. Maybe its all that dining hall food they eat now, rather than cooking like real Patrols! Kudu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKlose Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 "When you go from having zero utensils to wash to having 400 forks to run through the washer, three times a day, that changes the job substantially." 400 forks isn't so bad, at least not in the dishwasher we had (an autofeed system). Forks, etc, would have been loaded in small baskets, loaded onto a special tray; pre-rinse with a sprayer, and then fed onto the track into the dishwasher. Popped out the other end and it was left to air dry. The hard part was plates, bowls and serving dishes. If that had some kind of gloppy food, that had to be removed by hand. We were on a septic system, so there was no disposal. My very first cleanup, I was faced with a ton of dirty plates and I was looking around for something to scrape with. Then in a real Neanderthal Man type of moment, I realized I had the perfect tool on the end of my arm. I realized it's just leftover food, it's not even really trash yet. And it washes off when you're done. So, scraping was done by hand, with a hand. Goes really quickly. Our big week was about 220 campers and the staff (I can't recall, maybe 40 or 50?). Post-meal cleanup of dishes wasn't bad...maybe a half hour to 45 minutes? The bigger part was storing leftovers, mopping up and polishing the stainless steel counters and appliances. I think commercial kitchens are more stringent now, with disinfectant, than we were back then (I did a tour in a school kitchen during a fundraiser last year -- that's a school that serves 300 kids and staff with just two cafeteria workers -- but then again, there is a custodian to work tables and floors out in the dining room). By the way, I just recalled that a few months ago I checked the website of my old camp. I saw that they still offer dining hall service, but cafeteria-style (individuals walk through line with a tray). Now that pisses me off! Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Cafeteria style is SLOW. Wow... my camp used to do that for Sunday and Friday night dinners, but has since gone to family-style for everything. Servers show up 15 minutes in advance and have tables set, etc., by the time troops show up at retreat. Runs much more smoothly, and the staff doesn't have to wait an hour to eat (under the rule staff eats last). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScout Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Depends how big your camp is and how many serving lines you have . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 We had about 400 people and ONE serving line. It was painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
local1400 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 As a 16 and 17 year old summer camp cook, we worked 6 am until almost midnight. 2 cooks and 3 C.I.T's for assistance and cleanup. Almost everything was made from scratch and we served 300 max. Staff ate with the campers. I prefer the family-style of camp dining. As a staff member in my after-cook life, we ate with different campers each day. You ate everything with a smile as an example. It was great to interact with so many Scouts you may otherwise not meet, find out what they were doing for fun, where they were from, and on and on. I will always be a fan of the dining hall for the summer camp, on a social level and for time management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScout Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Our camp did about 400 in three lines, it wasn't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Never had a problem pitching in, no matter the program area. And yes, the Dining Hall, and Kitchen crews are as much Program as any of the other traditional program areas. Also, it allows those of us who have been seasoned by many, many tours as camp staff to set the example for the new staff member, that we are an extended family. And when family members need help, we're there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKlose Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 I received a PM asking me about the rustic camp with patrol cooking that I had mentioned. I found it listed on the council's website, in northern Indiana, and I checked out their website. It now lists, as a feature, an "air-conditioned dining hall". Just as a side note, I was probably around 7 summers as a scout. I remember going to summer camp at the council camp twice and doing summer camp on our own twice. One summer I was working on the council camp, and one year I think we skipped because the troop went to the national jamboree (I think I still went as a day camper, with another scout friend). That leaves only one summer I can't recall. I'm not sure if it is because I skipped, or because the troop skipped. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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