summer camp put on by troop

[prof]

In the parent thread, Shortridge make a good point about the economics of a troop conducting summer camp on its own.

 

He wrote: It seems to me that the time is ripe for units that want to create their own summer camp experience. Where I live, you can still get a state park pass for $27. Tent camping is $2 per night per person - $14 for a week, plus a $20 group reservation fee. For a troop of 40, that's about $16 per person, leaving a lot of room in the budget for equipment and food while still bringing it in for much cheaper than a council-run camp.

 

My troop is currently considering what Shortridge proposes. I'd be interested in knowing how well it has worked out from anyone who has done this before. I've seen some comments in the past from large troops who have done this. Has anyone from a small troop (10 or so boys)tried this with much success?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[2eagles]

prof My troop held its own winter camp for several years. It was cheaper and I thought the program was far superior. The scouts also had a great time. Downside is if the boys really enjoy hanging with other scouts from other troops. But the whole point is what is best for the boys which is a year by year decision. So I think it is great whenever the leaders are out there providing good program.

[scottmphoto]

Because of rising costs at our local camp and lack of funds in our budget, we took our troop on our own "summer camp" last summer. We got to camp for free (well, almost, we had to collect some rocks to help the landowner build a wall). Our younger Scouts stayed in camp and worked o merit badges and our older Scouts went on a canoe trip and went on a guided cave trip. Everybody got together in the evening for the usual campfire stuff.

The cost of our local camp was $175 last year, that would have been @ $3450.00 for the week, that's for 18 boys and 4 adults. Our camp cost @ $682 (including gas). That's @ $31.00 per person.

Our troop is chartered to an LDS church (I'm a non-member SM) and the church pays all the expenses out of their budget that is set aside from the Young Men's program. We're not allowed to participate in any type of fundraisers and we have many lower-income families in the area that can't afford to pay even that much for camp. Our camp this year has already gone up to $190.00 for this coming summer.

We're thinking about taking our younger Scouts to regular camp this summer with the older boys doing high adventure.

[shortridge]

I can't answer that specific question - I'm a council camp guy, born and bred - but there are lots of details and great planning tips for independent troop camps in the older Scoutmaster Handbooks and Handbook for Patrol Leaders. I have copies from the '50s.

 

scottmphoto - $190 is CHEAP from an East Coast perspective. My local camp is up to $305, and that's with the early-bird discount.

[GKlose]

My troop, back in the 70s, did this a few times on our own. When the council offered their version of "Brownsea 22" training (which may have been part of the All Out For Scouting initiative, it was old hat to me. It was also not unlike the week we spent at the national jamboree (actually, I think the menus were very similar at all of those events). This is a link to someone's diary, and it looks like they went through something similar to me (except ours was patrol method, cooking on our own all the way, including an end of the week parent's banquet):

 

http://www.hcst.net/~edelmann/brownsea22.html

 

I'm not sure about this, but it seems like some of the "Brownsea 22" syllabus was adapted into NYLT.

 

When our troop did it on our own, I know there were adults that devoted an entire week of their time to help the program run (such as one dad that acted as a commissary agent for the week -- years later, I've learned from one of his sons that his dad drove into town, daily, shopped every store looking for the best deals on large quantities and even managed to talk store owners into making donations). Of course, there was a limited set of MBs offered, but it wasn't all about advancement, it was about having fun for the week.

[scottmphoto]

I agree that $190 is "cheap" for summer camp, but we have a lot of lower-income Scouts that can't afford it and we're not allowed to do fundraisers. I know that right now, I might not be able to afford the $75 cost for an adult leader to attend myself.

A LONG TIME AGO, when I was a Scout (my first year at Camp Orr in Arkansas was 1982), it cost $60 per Scout. The only way that I could afford to go was that my grandmother paid for it and I worked it off doing jobs around her house. I understand that the cost of everything has gone up but some people just can't afford it.

I LOVE going to our local camp. I say that I basically grew up there. Besides troop summer camp there, our troop camped there a lot in the off-season, our OA always held activities there, I was on staff there for several years...etc. My dad was in one of the canoes as they came down the Buffalo River and chose the spot for the camp. He helped build the rock dining hall and trading post in the early years of the camp. I have a lot of special memories about this camp. But... for the cost and the great program that we held last summer on our own... We'll probably end up doing our own camp again. It's the only way that some of our boys will be able to have any kind of summer camp experience.

Everybody has to way the pro's and con's of a local camp versus their own camp. There's some good things and bad things as well about both and I wouldn't trade one for the other...either of them.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, whatever yeh might think of our resident patrol method gadfly Kudu, his site does have some interestin' information, includin' a whole slew of information from troops that have run their own camps.

 

See

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/summer/camp/troop/03.htm, and follow all da links on the bottom that say "camp" or "do it yourself" or somethin' similar. His indexing ain't that great .

 

B

 

[scoutldr]

scottmphoto said, "Our younger Scouts stayed in camp and worked o merit badges and our older Scouts went on a canoe trip and went on a guided cave trip."

 

Sounds like you have a lot of qualified adults to serve as MB counselors, etc. We're lucky to get 2 adults who can sacrifice a week of vacation time. Sometimes we have to tag-team it to cover the week. The parents usually take off and take their own vacation that week.

[Eagle92]

On the MS gulfcoast, there three troop that jointly operate a summercamp. And they make their camp available to any troop that is willing to come, but there are condidtions.

 

1) Fee was $65/week and that was 7 years ago.

2) All leaders accompaning the troop HAD to teach a MB Class.

 

It was very popular.

[Eamonn]

Nearly all Troops in the UK organize and run their own summer camp.

There are no Councils, so while some campsites do offer some sort of organized camp, it's nothing like the Council Summer Camp offered by most Councils here in the USA.

Summer Camp is seen as a time to have fun,help teach or reinforce skills and maybe do a little sightseeing!

We used to plan a camp outside of England every-other year.

We camped in Holland (The Scout Center near Rotterdam. A pal of mine was a Dutch Sea Scout Leader.) Ireland (Of course!!)

Switzerland (Kandersteg.) and had one trip to the USA and Canada.

Along with camps all over England and Wales.

Some of the problems are:

Transportation: Getting the Scouts and the equipment where it is supposed to be.

We very often loaded the vans with equipment and had the Scouts travel by public transportation.

Feeding: Having to leave camp to buy food. Some ASM's lose track of time and seem to get lost and when they do return they are experts in how good the Plowman's Lunch is in the local!!

Checking Things Out:

As a rule, where possible Easter Camp was only for the youth leaders and we went to visit the camp and the area so we could come up with programs that were worthwhile. (Finding a local swimming pool was a biggie!!)

We were very lucky in that we had our own fleet of 15 seater mini-vans for our use. But when we took 80 Scouts this was a problem.

Of course if your main reason or the parents main reason for going to summer camp is for the Scouts to work on Merit Badges? There is no way (Hopefully!!) That you can offer everything that a Council ran camp can offer.

You do need to have enough adult leaders. English summer camps as a rule used to be two weeks. The adults do tend to get "Scouted Out" after a while and allowing them time off is very important.

Allowing the Scouts (PLC) to plan the camp is also very important. All too often I've seen adults plan things that they think the Scouts ought to be interested in or they think is educational!! Only to find that the Scouts hate it.

Having people with the skills that are needed is also important. If you are planning on swimming in the local lake you need to follow the Safe Swim plan, you will of course need a couple of trained First Aid Staff.

We did have some problems with younger Scouts and chemical toilets. (I also never asked the youth members to be in charge of cleaning these out and only had the adults take care of it.)

We used to cook almost entirely over wood fires. A large troop can burn a heck of a lot of wood in two weeks!!

At one camp in Ireland we had a problem with a few Scouts shop-lifting. Discipline can be a problem when you are so far away from home and sending Scouts home really is not an option. Establishing a fair and workable code of conduct (Yes I know we have the Oath and Law) before you set off is worth while.

I really did find that I got to know a lot more about each and every Scout when we ran our own Summer camps.

The Patrols camped as Patrols and this made them stronger.

I really wish more Troops in our area would think about giving the Council Summer camp a miss every now and then. Not because of cost, just because to my mind it is just so much better.

Eamonn.